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Old 9th Oct 2012, 09:18   #1
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Steam for Linux game list leaks out early

Nothing particularly ground-breaking, but a little something for most tastes.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/...-linux-games/1
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 09:24   #2
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According to a community list of Steamgames with native Linux versions those taking part in the Linux Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games
I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !

I started playing on Atari 2600 and Intellivision ... GFX are nothing compared to the gameplay. Gameplay + great OST = win. GFX will always age, contrary to gameplay and music. That's my humble opinion ....
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 09:38   #3
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Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic View Post
I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !
Not disagreeing there - I regularly play on my ZX81, after all - but you've got to admit that the list of games is pretty obvious in its lack of anything released recently. Not surprising, really, but if I didn't mention it you can be damn sure the anti-Linux types (you know who you are) would.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 09:50   #4
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Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree View Post
Not disagreeing there - I regularly play on my ZX81, after all - but you've got to admit that the list of games is pretty obvious in its lack of anything released recently. Not surprising, really, but if I didn't mention it you can be damn sure the anti-Linux types (you know who you are) would.
xD ..... do not start a flame war . Most of my Steam games are native Linux. I have great hope to see at least the HL series and Alien Swarm ported to Linux. When it's done, I unsintall Windows
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 10:09   #5
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Looking forward to seeing how the steam client works out, especially when they start releasing some of their own (tf2)
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 11:54   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
Quote:
According to a community list of Steamgames with native Linux versions those taking part in the Linux Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games
I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !

I started playing on Atari 2600 and Intellivision ... GFX are nothing compared to the gameplay. Gameplay + great OST = win. GFX will always age, contrary to gameplay and music. That's my humble opinion ....
Nah, a great game has a combination of great graphics and great gameplay. Also, gameplay ages just as graphics and sound. What was once revolutionary, becomes standard.

On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 12:19   #7
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Quote:
On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.
Very true. But everything has to start somewhere. Once the source engine and its games get over I might get a little more excited. But like its said a lot of these games are native already. Good to see its not far off being released though!
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 13:01   #8
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I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.

I really want to try Steam on linux, but I'm not looking forward to all the headaches - even games that natively support linux have some interesting quirks; Shatter just displays all textures as shaded black boxes for me in linux; World of Goo will run without issues if I start it manually from the terminal, but loads and crashes if I use the GUI; SPAZ runs, but at about 2fps; Uplink works OK, but again needs to be started from the terminal...

I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 13:27   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parge View Post
Nah, a great game has a combination of great graphics and great gameplay. Also, gameplay ages just as graphics and sound. What was once revolutionary, becomes standard.

On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.
Terraria sold millions of copies, Minecraft too, etc etc etc etc etc .... do you really thing graphics is that important ?

Gameplay can make a game popular, even with very simple GFX. Awesome GFX without a good gameplay is useless. Now, most gamers only cares about GFX ....

Nice graphics is an addition, but won't make a game fun or entertianing. It's just a "plus". Don't misunderstand me, I like good graphics ... but I can live without them and I don't care turning a few option down to make it "playable". As long as the gameplay is rich, fun or original.

I stopped playing FPS because it's mostly the same gameplay, over and over, with only better GFX. And it's also why I almost buy none of the "big" games. It just feels like studio are only after money, serving the same thing over and over. All the budget going into GFX, instead of game design (as level design, game mechanics, etc).

EDIT : It's far easier to make a great looking game and takes less time. It also sells more, since people, nowaday, care more about appearance than everything. Creating an original game is far more difficult and more risquee : it sells .... or not ! But a 250th clone of COD will sell millions of copie without any effort.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 13:55   #10
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Quote:
tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare
Without reading every package thats getting updated. Im scared ever to update in Arch! Its like rolling a dice sometimes!
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 13:58   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter

I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.
That's how it is with most users.

I occasionally try a few linux distros just see how things are moving a long, and I'm just reminded as to why I don't use linux.

"Ok cool, time to install video drivers, xorg server crash? WTF is that?"

After awhile I just get tired of babysitting the OS and go back to windows.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 14:00   #12
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The only Linux native game I had hard time to install was Darwinia. The Linux installer was made for 32 bits OS and I had 64 bits Linux. Except that, never a single issue with GPU drivers, maybe I'm lucky ^^
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 14:56   #13
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Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games at launch...
FTL is there (I may have had something to do with that thanks to my impatience ¬_¬), so the outdated part is quite wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.

I really want to try Steam on linux, but I'm not looking forward to all the headaches - even games that natively support linux have some interesting quirks; Shatter just displays all textures as shaded black boxes for me in linux; World of Goo will run without issues if I start it manually from the terminal, but loads and crashes if I use the GUI; SPAZ runs, but at about 2fps; Uplink works OK, but again needs to be started from the terminal...

I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.
I installed Nvidia drivers today on my ArchLinux laptop. One reboot later and everything was running flawlessly. No X or any other breakage to speak up, power management up and running etc etc. For that matter, this particular Dell Latitude E6400 is pretty much all Intel minus the GPU, so its very, VERY hard to break the base system since pretty much everything runs flawlessly. Hell, its easier than installing anything opensource on OSX or Windows.

Installing AMD drivers on the other hand I haven't attempted since last year and I have no intention of trying again any time soon: its just broken too often to be worth the time and effort.

As for Arch updates, well, From hard-earned experience: read the news BEFORE you update and go over your .pacsave files after updating. Doing these two will pretty much stop any breakage. from happening.

Disclaimer: I hate OSX (because the UI is terrible and the rest is getting locked down much like iOS) but I like Windows only slightly less than Linux. I'm just happier in Linux. MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned, much to the chagrin of my Linux-loving, Windows-hating friends.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 15:07   #14
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Without reading every package thats getting updated. Im scared ever to update in Arch! Its like rolling a dice sometimes!
Yeah. I tend to watch the Arch Linux site and forums like a hawk, and when I've not seen any posts about 'so-and-so breaks such-and-such when updated' for a couple of days, take the risk.

It's a real shame - I like Arch... a lot... but I would never be able to risk it on any machine that was mission critical. CentOS, Debian Stable or Ubuntu Server are reserved for production systems I need to know will work, even after an update. And of course, those systems don't have exotic GPU hardware - or, usually, exotic hardware at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd View Post
That's how it is with most users.

I occasionally try a few linux distros just see how things are moving a long, and I'm just reminded as to why I don't use linux.

"Ok cool, time to install video drivers, xorg server crash? WTF is that?"

After awhile I just get tired of babysitting the OS and go back to windows.
Wayland, the 'replacement' for Xorg looks promising, but uptake of it just isn't great enough. There aren't enough people hammering it daily to test it properly and distros aren't trying it out. That may change with Ubuntu 12.10, but again I can't risk it on a production system.

I spend a lot of time using linux at work, in situations where Windows would be a bad thing - so I appreciate it and use it a lot... but for gaming? I'd like to, but experience makes me tend toward sceptical. As troublesome as Windows can be, gaming on linux seems to need the stars to align, the phase of the moon to be just right and ritual sacrifice of a Windows disc before it works without issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic View Post
The only Linux native game I had hard time to install was Darwinia. The Linux installer was made for 32 bits OS and I had 64 bits Linux. Except that, never a single issue with GPU drivers, maybe I'm lucky ^^
Bizarrely, Darwinia is about the only game I've installed that has behaved so far. And that was a 32-bit install on a 64-bit system. Just needed the right dependencies and it was happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
I installed Nvidia drivers today on my ArchLinux laptop. One reboot later and everything was running flawlessly. No X or any other breakage to speak up, power management up and running etc etc. For that matter, this particular Dell Latitude E6400 is pretty much all Intel minus the GPU, so its very, VERY hard to break the base system since pretty much everything runs flawlessly. Hell, its easier than installing anything opensource on OSX or Windows.

Installing AMD drivers on the other hand I haven't attempted since last year and I have no intention of trying again any time soon: its just broken too often to be worth the time and effort.

As for Arch updates, well, From hard-earned experience: read the news BEFORE you update and go over your .pacsave files after updating. Doing these two will pretty much stop any breakage. from happening.

Disclaimer: I hate OSX (because the UI is terrible and the rest is getting locked down much like iOS) but I like Windows only slightly less than Linux. I'm just happier in Linux. MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned, much to the chagrin of my Linux-loving, Windows-hating friends.
Perhaps my issues are exotic hardware, then. Quite likely, in fact.

I agree with you on Microsoft Office - it's the one Windows program that stops me from going linux-only on work systems.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 15:14   #15
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I'll give Darwinia a new try, I was a Linux beginer when I bought it. Agreed with Office. The compatibility layer on LibreOffice is usefull but not flawless. Document are not displayed the way they are displayed with MSOffice.

It's the only non Linux native software that I use. Even Maya is Linux native, and so easy to install.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 15:32   #16
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Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
Yeah. I tend to watch the Arch Linux site and forums like a hawk, and when I've not seen any posts about 'so-and-so breaks such-and-such when updated' for a couple of days, take the risk.
I upgrade daily for maximum freshness, then bitch when it does break. The IRC channel is surprisingly helpful.

EDIT: haven't had a single break in ages though.... Well, none that were not a direct results of me badly configuring something at some point at any rate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
It's a real shame - I like Arch... a lot... but I would never be able to risk it on any machine that was mission critical. CentOS, Debian Stable or Ubuntu Server are reserved for production systems I need to know will work, even after an update. And of course, those systems don't have exotic GPU hardware - or, usually, exotic hardware at all.
That's why I run Debian on my remote box. Arch all the way at home. May try CentOS to enjoy the RedHat awesomeness sometime...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
Wayland, the 'replacement' for Xorg looks promising, but uptake of it just isn't great enough. There aren't enough people hammering it daily to test it properly and distros aren't trying it out. That may change with Ubuntu 12.10, but again I can't risk it on a production system.
Wayland can't be tested because of nothing supporting it. What you need in an initial stage is a DE of some sort to start using it so people can start breaking everything. This is being worked on by mad nutters everywhere as we speak, and the slowness of development is why Ubuntu 12.04 didn't ship with Wayland. I very much doubt Wayland being ready in time for 12.10. Maybe 13.04...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
I spend a lot of time using linux at work, in situations where Windows would be a bad thing - so I appreciate it and use it a lot... but for gaming? I'd like to, but experience makes me tend toward sceptical. As troublesome as Windows can be, gaming on linux seems to need the stars to align, the phase of the moon to be just right and ritual sacrifice of a Windows disc before it works without issues.
Linux just needs a bit of help from hardware vendors (*ahem* AMD *ahem*)

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Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter View Post
Perhaps my issues are exotic hardware, then. Quite likely, in fact.
Definitely.

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I agree with you on Microsoft Office - it's the one Windows program that stops me from going linux-only on work systems.
FINALLY! SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME ON THIS!!!
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 15:56   #17
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 16:20   #18
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Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.
I've never had any problems with graphics drivers for AMD cards on openSuse or Ubuntu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned
You can still run Office in WINE though, works perfectly (or at least, did for me running Office 2007 on openSuse).
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 16:57   #19
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Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
I upgrade daily for maximum freshness, then bitch when it does break. The IRC channel is surprisingly helpful.

EDIT: haven't had a single break in ages though.... Well, none that were not a direct results of me badly configuring something at some point at any rate...
I had a couple of bad updates on Arch in a row that cost me a number of hours to fix, and at the time I didn't have time, so I gave up and went back to Debian for the time being.

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Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
That's why I run Debian on my remote box. Arch all the way at home. May try CentOS to enjoy the RedHat awesomeness sometime...
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of CentOS. I only use it because some of the software I use at work (to control expensive hardware) is only supported by the company when run on CentOS or RedHat. I don't really like RPM; I prefer APT and pacman.

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Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
Wayland can't be tested because of nothing supporting it. What you need in an initial stage is a DE of some sort to start using it so people can start breaking everything. This is being worked on by mad nutters everywhere as we speak, and the slowness of development is why Ubuntu 12.04 didn't ship with Wayland. I very much doubt Wayland being ready in time for 12.10. Maybe 13.04...
I read somewhere that they were testing Wayland with Ubuntu 12.10.

But I just went looking and it seems like they changed their minds.

I know it's a vicious circle - it's testing, so no one uses it... but without people using it, it can't leave testing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
Linux just needs a bit of help from hardware vendors (*ahem* AMD *ahem*)
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
Definitely.
Yeah, exotic hardware is usually the cause. Pity that it's usually in gaming rigs. As I said, less modern stuff (that is still fairly new - Core 2 Duo/Quad) behaves perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor View Post
FINALLY! SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME ON THIS!!!
One of my colleagues will agree too. Office is the 'killer' application that linux needs. Microsoft make Office Mac; but I doubt they'll ever do the same for linux. More's the pity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven View Post
I've never had any problems with graphics drivers for AMD cards on openSuse or Ubuntu.
A few others say the same. Many are in the same boat as myself, however. It's odd - I used to run a linux box with an ancient FireGL 8800 in it, and ATi's old FireGL linux drivers were very good. Their recent attempts, though, have been less than stellar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven View Post
You can still run Office in WINE though, works perfectly (or at least, did for me running Office 2007 on openSuse).
Office 2010 works far from perfectly, and that is the version of Office that where I work uses.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 17:08   #20
GuilleAcoustic
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The AMD firepro drivers are nice on Linux. Look at phoronix test of the Vx900 series (V4900 / 5900 / 7900).

No issue with Q6600 + HD5870 here, but it's not really the latest hardware available (while still being capable).
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