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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 20:18   #1
bawjaws
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Valve introduce paid for Steam Workshop content

I logged into Steam this evening and was greeted by an announcement to the effect that content creators for the Steam Workshop can now sell their wares via Steam, starting with Skyrim in the first instance (link here).

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly torn, as on one hand I do think that it's not unreasonable for content creators to get rewarded for their work (and some Elder Scrolls mods have been utterly brilliant), but on the other hand I can easily see this leading to every single mod being paid for, and even the worst or most minor mods costing a dollar or whatever. Looking at what's on sale for Skyrim, there are a whole load of individual sword models on sale for $1 (67p) a pop, which is bloody ridiculous.

Valve are saying that if a mod doesn't work as advertised or is broken, you can get a refund within 24 hours, which is better than nothing, but I suspect that there will be a lot of mods on sale that will offer very little for the money - sorting the wheat from the chaff will be extremely difficult.

Above all, I think I just object to the blatant commercialisation of the modding community. The single best thing about PC gaming, imo, is the ability to mod games. Unofficial patches, bug fixes, gameplay tweaks, graphical overhauls, complete new content - all of these things are major bonuses for PC gamers. Unfortunately, it appears that Valve have decided that there's money to be made from this, and they are determined to get their slice of the pie. I'm no Valve hater, and in general I really like Steam, but this just leaves a sour taste tbh.

If Valve wanted to make sure that modders got paid, and take their cut too, they could have added a "donate" button easily enough. I suspect that that wouldn't be lucrative enough for them, however.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 20:43   #2
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Begs the question what the publishers and developers have to say. Surely a paid for 'mod' is expansion content and the IP (and game engine) owners have every right to sue anyone who releases unlicensed add-ons for their games. I wonder if Valve have sorted that ahead of time or if the first modder to try it is going to get a Zenimax (or Activision, Ubisoft etc) legal headbutt.

Mostly I think it's going to introduce the unusual concept of mod piracy to gaming.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 20:43   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws View Post
I logged into Steam this evening and was greeted by an announcement to the effect that content creators for the Steam Workshop can now sell their wares via Steam, starting with Skyrim in the first instance (link here).

What's everyone's opinion on this? I'm slightly torn, as on one hand I do think that it's not unreasonable for content creators to get rewarded for their work (and some Elder Scrolls mods have been utterly brilliant), but on the other hand I can easily see this leading to every single mod being paid for, and even the worst or most minor mods costing a dollar or whatever. Looking at what's on sale for Skyrim, there are a whole load of individual sword models on sale for $1 (67p) a pop, which is bloody ridiculous.
Look here: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/? instead for Skyrim mods.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 20:56   #4
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We knew it was coming, pretty sure it's been in the description for Workshops for ages. Sad though, I kind of feel everyone will end up charging for everything now. I suppose only time will tell.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 21:04   #5
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We knew it was coming, pretty sure it's been in the description for Workshops for ages. Sad though, I kind of feel everyone will end up charging for everything now. I suppose only time will tell.
Those who continue using the Workshop to source mods are likely to become much more choosy about what they subscribe too. Those who try to charge for crap mods will soon find themselves making no money. I hope the Nexus doesn't follow suit with charging.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 21:10   #6
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Originally Posted by fix-the-spade View Post
Begs the question what the publishers and developers have to say. Surely a paid for 'mod' is expansion content and the IP (and game engine) owners have every right to sue anyone who releases unlicensed add-ons for their games. I wonder if Valve have sorted that ahead of time or if the first modder to try it is going to get a Zenimax (or Activision, Ubisoft etc) legal headbutt.

Mostly I think it's going to introduce the unusual concept of mod piracy to gaming.
Er, the publisher will be taking their slice of the profit It'll be split between the publisher, Valve and the modder, probably in that order.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 21:54   #7
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modder gets 25%
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 23:41   #8
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I'm Don't mind at all. Already contribute to mod development for Cities Skylines via patreon.
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Old 23rd Apr 2015, 23:55   #9
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steam workshop has such a low barrier of entry its no wonder steam is looking to cover the data costs of hosting the metric **** tonne of rubbish that people put up, personally i say scrap the lot, there are places out there where proper mods can be hosted.

mods should have the option to donate to the creator for their work, not hide them behind an optional pay wall that ****s the creator,
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 00:00   #10
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modder gets 25%
Wow, I was expecting a lot more. Kinda sucks to be honest, Valve take all the money.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 00:08   #11
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Wow, I was expecting a lot more. Kinda sucks to be honest, Valve take all the money.
25% is a lot more than the 0% they've been getting so far.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 00:11   #12
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Definitely. I was just expecting Valve to pay them more.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 06:47   #13
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One gripe I have with the paid workshop is that neither the modders nor Bethesda or Valve is under any obligation to keep the mod updated or even ensure it does run propperly in the first place. This is less of a problem in a game such as Dota, but Skyrim is a nightmare to mod, and that's on good days. One (stolen) mod on the paid workshop Midas Magic is known to cause crashes and even corrupt saves. The original author has abandoned the mod quite some time ago.

I would recommend you to read the newest blog entry of the creator of the Nexus sites, he makes quite a few good points. Unfortunately I cannot find a link for you at work.




On a side note I really wonder if this was a good move by Bethesda. Valve has no risk in this, but Bethesda has relied on modders to fix their games for quite some time now. Creating a paywall might deter modders from spending thousands of hours to create unofficial patches and release them for free when you can earn a few quid for a simple weapon. And who in their right mind would pay money for patches when most of the money goes to the very people that made the mistakes adressed?
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 12:50   #14
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There is far too much legal stuff to work out well, a mod has already been pulled for using the content of another mod, there is also the problems of monetizing stuff made with pirated/student licence photoshop/3dsmax so unless the mod makers are using open source or have a commercial licence for the programs they could get into legal trouble there. There is also the problems of after 24 hours you can't get a refund so if a future patch/update breaks the mod and the mod maker doesn't or can't fix the mod you are left without the mod. Then there is also the problems of people using third party mod tools/resources for their mods like SKSE for Skyrim.

There is also the problem that has effected other games with monetized modding community's. Things like people less willing to make and distribute modding resources and tutorials knowing people will just use it to make money. People are also less willing to help people who are starting out becasue they are now the competition and the less competition the better. Money brings out the worst in people, it has happened in other modding scenes and it will happen here too.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 12:59   #15
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Paying for mods? Doesn't that basically make it unlicensed DLC?

People who do and find an update breaks a mod they've paid for, and the modder has abandoned it, are going to be fuming about this in a few months time.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 14:16   #16
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This is going to be a massive fuster cluck of issues the second anyone uploads any mod that uses some other content, LOTR weapons, Frikkin' Light Sabers, anything like that, as Valve will be Profiting off another companies' licenses, so they'll be eligible for a massive lawsuit.

The other issue is sheer longevity, will we find mods that promise the world, then never release it all and run with the money? There's no accountability. Currently; There are mods charging more than Bethesda DLC, containing less content and with less support.

There is also the payout limit on Steam, in that you have to take in $400 in revenue before Valve will pay you your $100 cut, that's also before taxes and everything else, so at the end; You've got less than the $100 of the 400 you earned in the first place.

Hopefully Nexusmods will tweak their system to allow easier donations to creators and such, since with this move; Bethesda have effectively stated that it is okay for mod developers to monetise their work. (As long as they get their cut, but that could be worked out later)

Yet another problem is going to be install simplicity. Currently SKSE isn't on the Workshop (The developers are working with Valve to try and implement it) and some mods require it, hell, the vast majority of mods now need it, that or SkyUI, which requires SKSE anyway.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 16:42   #17
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Can see it either going well or really badly. People will just pirate mods if they are to expensive
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 17:05   #18
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You just have to chuckle sometimes.

Sure you can argue that this helps the modder to earn something, and they also don't have to charge for their mods, but honestly it won't end up that simple.

What was nice about mods is that they're very much a dip your toe in experience. You can add or remove them at will, and often big mods will have links to support pages for donations if you really liked it. In this model why wouldn't you charge if you've taken a lot of time and effort to develop something? The problem arises then that if you charge for something, in principle you should offer some sort of service. The mod needs to continue to work after game updates, other mod clashes etc. That's a lot of extra work, many people simply won't recognise that and won't offer that support. That just leaves a load of disgruntled people who paid for something that no longer works. If that modder then releases another mod, I wouldn't be surprised if people are more willing to boycott/slander it if they feel they were ripped off. It's simpler when things are free, you don't usually feel as entitled to a good experience.

I know for certain that if I download a free mod and it doesn't work after a while, I'm a bit disappointed but just move on, no real loss there. If I paid even a small amount I feel a bit short changed, despite often getting my money's worth pretty quickly. Had this problem with apps before. Had a few apps a bought years ago that are genuinely useful, the dev no longer supports them and they're now almost unusable as a result. It's just made me reluctant to buy anything now.
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 17:59   #19
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Old 24th Apr 2015, 22:35   #20
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Er, the publisher will be taking their slice of the profit It'll be split between the publisher, Valve and the modder, probably in that order.
I was thinking more when the mod includes copyrighted material from multiple devs or publishers, or when modders have their work put onto the store without their permission (which is already happening).

I can see Activision Blizzard suing the crap out of Valve or DMCA-ing the whole thing back to oblivion (ha!) when the inevitable Warcraft themed Skyrim mods appear on the store. Or Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and so on. Valve will try and claim that creator's work is not their responsibility, the plaintif will counter that Valve has set up a system specifically made to facilitate IP infringement for financial gain.

Youtube spent years thrashing this out and I can see Valve about to fall into the same pit.
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