bit-tech.net

Go Back   bit-tech.net Forums > Technology > Hardware

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21st Nov 2012, 17:08   #1
LennyRhys
Air Cooled
 
LennyRhys's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 3,871
LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.
Wireless Adapter - PCI vs USB

I'm moving my PC to the spare bedroom and I'm going to have to get a wireless adapter for it but have no idea where to start because I've had a cable connection for years now.

What do you wireless people use and what would you recommend? I hope to make a purchase either tonight or tomorrow.

We have a Virgin Superhub in the living room and 60 meg broadband.
__________________
Main: i7 920 @ 4.2 :: Gigabyte X58 USB3 :: 6GB Dominator GT @ 1600MHz 6-6-6-18-1T 1.5v
EVGA GTX 570 :: Toughpower 775w :: 320GB & 2TB :: NEC MDview 262
_____
Phun: E8200 @ 4 :: Asus P5Q-E :: 2GB Cellshock :: X1950XT 256 :: CWT 400W
LennyRhys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 17:51   #2
murraynt
I Mod, Therefore I Own
 
murraynt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Athlone,Ireland
Posts: 4,109
murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.murraynt is a hoopy frood who really knows where their towel is.
I would go for home plugs instead. I have a belkin pci-e Wi-Fi card in a rig and it has been a headache.
__________________
I5 2500K @ 4.8ghz l MSI GD53l 8GB corsair 1600mhz l Asus 5870 v2 NZXT Phantom Red l Zalman X10 Quiet l 60GB Crucial M4l F3 1TB Spinner l X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty l 700Watt Thermaltake l Samsung IPS231 l
Steam: murraynt
murraynt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 17:54   #3
Sp!
Ultramodder
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hemel
Posts: 1,319
Sp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpitSp! is almost as Godly as yodasarmpit
USB on a fly lead for 1 simple reason, your PCI slots are inside your case (which is probably on the floor) putting the antenna on the back of the big metal box under your desk is far from ideal antenna placement.

PS. I've still got a netgear one for sale... see here
Sp! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 17:55   #4
Ivoryspike
Air Cooled
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Swansea, Wales
Posts: 76
Ivoryspike has yet to learn the way of the DremelIvoryspike has yet to learn the way of the DremelIvoryspike has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Yea, PoE plugs would be my choice too, especially seeing as the Virgin 'Superhub' wireless is utter pants.

If you have to go wireless then a PCI card my have better signal pickup (given the right model, 2-3 antennae).

edit: but SP! does have a point about placement.
__________________
i7 920 D0 @ 3.8Ghz | Asus P6T Deluxe | MSI Twin Frozr III 7950 @ 1.1Ghz | 12 GB G-Skill Ripjaws @ 1600 | 1050W Enermax Evolution | Antec 1200 | 256GB Samsung 830 | 2 x 3 TB HDD | Ducky Shine II Reds | Hazro HZ27WC | Samsung 2693HM
Ivoryspike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 17:56   #5
lp rob1
PAM says no...
 
lp rob1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ::1
Posts: 1,493
lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.
A bit of drilling to get a cable connection across? Unless drilling isn't an option due to restrictive landlords or the such... Really - it takes so little effort to get a cable connection to anywhere in a small-moderately sized house.
__________________
The Linux Schools Project
lp rob1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 19:00   #6
GoodBytes
How many wifi's does it have?
 
GoodBytes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 12,048
GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.GoodBytes is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
PCI leaves more room for the wireless card manufacture to put better components and have more power to receive a signal. However, as time moves on, and technology improves, in power efficiency, and smaller designs. I don't think there is much of a difference. Some PCI/PCI-E cards comes with an antenna that has a cable, so you can put it anywhere you want. Like ASUS or Gigabyte motherboards with Wifi built-in.
__________________
Nv GPU Pro - Automate your graphic card overclock base on what you run, reduce power and noise. Designed for Laptops and Desktops. Filled with features.

Core i7 930 2.8GHz | G.Skill Pi 6GB 1600MHz 7-5-7-24 1.5V | Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 | GeForce GTX 260 | W.D Caviar Black 1TB | Corsair AX750 | Noctua NH-U12P | Xonar Essence STX | Win8 Pro 64-bit | Dell U2410 - 1920x1200 | OCZ Vertex 4 250GB
GoodBytes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 20:23   #7
LennyRhys
Air Cooled
 
LennyRhys's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 3,871
LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.
I didn't actually consider getting a cable purely because it would be a lot of work, but now that I think about it, perhaps it would be doable and I'm looking into it. I reckon I'd need at least 25m of cable.

The homeplugs look nice, but dang they are expensive compared to the alternatives!
__________________
Main: i7 920 @ 4.2 :: Gigabyte X58 USB3 :: 6GB Dominator GT @ 1600MHz 6-6-6-18-1T 1.5v
EVGA GTX 570 :: Toughpower 775w :: 320GB & 2TB :: NEC MDview 262
_____
Phun: E8200 @ 4 :: Asus P5Q-E :: 2GB Cellshock :: X1950XT 256 :: CWT 400W
LennyRhys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Nov 2012, 20:33   #8
Yslen
Lord of the Twenty-Seventh Circle
 
Yslen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1,555
Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.Yslen is definitely a rep cheat.
Homeplugs > PCI/PCIe w. breakout antenna > PCI/PCIe with fixed antenna > USB of any kind

USB tends to be unstable and slow, in my experience. If you go for an internal card, get an antenna with a cable rather than a directly attached one if you have signal strength issues. Homeplugs tend to work best, at least in my house. Very stable, low latency, no worrying about signal at all.
__________________
Asrock Z77e-ITX - Intel i5 3570k - Corsair H50-1 - G.Skill Ripjaws X 2133MHz - Gigabyte HD6870 - Crucial M4 - Samsung HDD - 530W ThermalTake SS PSU - Bitfenix Prodigy - LG IPS231P - R.A.T. 5 - Poker II (Reds) - IBM Model M
Take a look at my Photography portfolio, here.
Yslen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 07:49   #9
mm vr
The cheesecake is a lie
 
mm vr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 2,968
mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!mm vr - it's over 9000!!!!!!!!1!1!1!!!
If you have a proper wireless router (not a Virgin Superhub), wireless should work without any issues at all. I have a 7-year-old Linksys WRT54G v2.2 and I've never had any signal or speed issues. Wireless is also an open standard unlike homeplug.
__________________
Intel Core i5 3570K @ 4.5GHz || Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme || Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H || 2x 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3 1600MHz CL10 || Radeon 4870 512MB || AC Accelero Twin Turbo Pro || Asus Xonar DX || Samsung 830 128GB || 2x WD Blue 640GB || Corsair HX620 || Antec P182 || Samsung SM 2232 + 2233 || Windows Server 2012
mm vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 08:28   #10
m3rk
Minimodder
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 22
m3rk has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
In my office at home the wi-fi signal is really poor - purchased a usb wireless module and usb extender, now works a treat now it has further reach and no drop outs on signal
m3rk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 09:44   #11
TaRkA DaHl
I *am* a Dremel
 
TaRkA DaHl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,629
TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.TaRkA DaHl is the Cheesecake. Relix smiles down upon them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LennyRhys View Post
I didn't actually consider getting a cable purely because it would be a lot of work, but now that I think about it, perhaps it would be doable and I'm looking into it. I reckon I'd need at least 25m of cable.

The homeplugs look nice, but dang they are expensive compared to the alternatives!
Lenny, cable costs peanuts and these houses have loads of places to hide it. I have run a set of cables up the inside edge of my flu for the fireplace, they come all the way up into the loft and I drop them down the walls with a set of push pull rods and then burst holes and fit face plates.

If you can get under the floor, into the loft and have a fire place you are sorted.

If its possible to lift some floor boards at the top of the stairs, you can even run cables through the gap between the plasterboard and under underneath of the stairs.
TaRkA DaHl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 09:48   #12
Margon
I'm good at Soldering
Moderator
 
Margon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Brighton
Posts: 3,998
Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.Margon is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivoryspike View Post
...PoE plugs...
PoE is power over ethernet, which isn't what home plugs are. Sorry to thread crap.
__________________
i7 3820 4.3ghz - 8GB 2133mhz - 580GTX SOC

HHKB Pro2 : Custom full LED Poker II Tactile Greys + Clears and Acrylic case : KBT Oni MxBlue+Clear spings : Cherry G80-1192 blacks : Dell AT101W : CM Trigger Z Browns : CM MECH Blues : CM Quickfire TK Stealth Browns : CM Quickfire XT Blues : Skidata Clears
Margon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 10:25   #13
RocketPotato
Minimodder
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 33
RocketPotato has yet to learn the way of the DremelRocketPotato has yet to learn the way of the DremelRocketPotato has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
This is a good one as it supports both 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz: http://www.asus.com/Networks/Wireless_Adapters/USBN53/
RocketPotato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 13:36   #14
LennyRhys
Air Cooled
 
LennyRhys's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 3,871
LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.LennyRhys is definitely a rep cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaRkA DaHl View Post
Lenny, cable costs peanuts and these houses have loads of places to hide it. I have run a set of cables up the inside edge of my flu for the fireplace, they come all the way up into the loft and I drop them down the walls with a set of push pull rods and then burst holes and fit face plates.

If you can get under the floor, into the loft and have a fire place you are sorted.

If its possible to lift some floor boards at the top of the stairs, you can even run cables through the gap between the plasterboard and under underneath of the stairs.
Yeah that's why it's such an attractive option for me - it's cheap and I enjoy DIY

I've already done a bit of recon and it would be pretty simple to get a cable upstairs... I just have to OK it with the boss when it comes to drilling holes

As simple as USB adapters are, I just don't think I could deal with the compromise having used cable for years!
__________________
Main: i7 920 @ 4.2 :: Gigabyte X58 USB3 :: 6GB Dominator GT @ 1600MHz 6-6-6-18-1T 1.5v
EVGA GTX 570 :: Toughpower 775w :: 320GB & 2TB :: NEC MDview 262
_____
Phun: E8200 @ 4 :: Asus P5Q-E :: 2GB Cellshock :: X1950XT 256 :: CWT 400W
LennyRhys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 15:59   #15
Ivoryspike
Air Cooled
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Swansea, Wales
Posts: 76
Ivoryspike has yet to learn the way of the DremelIvoryspike has yet to learn the way of the DremelIvoryspike has yet to learn the way of the Dremel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo Baggins View Post
PoE is power over ethernet, which isn't what home plugs are. Sorry to thread crap.
Yea quite correct, I meant Ethernet over power plugs not the other way around.
__________________
i7 920 D0 @ 3.8Ghz | Asus P6T Deluxe | MSI Twin Frozr III 7950 @ 1.1Ghz | 12 GB G-Skill Ripjaws @ 1600 | 1050W Enermax Evolution | Antec 1200 | 256GB Samsung 830 | 2 x 3 TB HDD | Ducky Shine II Reds | Hazro HZ27WC | Samsung 2693HM
Ivoryspike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 17:39   #16
jinq-sea
"Sammy Two Tongs"
Moderator
 
jinq-sea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 3,677
jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.jinq-sea is definitely a rep cheat.
IMHO, cable is always the best option!

BUT - if not, I'd go powerline ethernet.
__________________
"If tin whistles are made of tin, what are fog horns made of?"

DK1087 w/Browns - G80-3494 w/Clears
jinq-sea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 17:41   #17
Neilc
Multimodder
 
Neilc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Chelmsford, Essex
Posts: 147
Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.Neilc is definitely a rep cheat.
I recently went completely to home plugs after getting fed up of crappy wireless from my BT homehub (although the wireless is actually OK, but just too far too stream HD content) - I have 1 homeplug plugged into my switch and 2 futher plugs...1 into my pc and another into my laptop that sits underneath my TV. I have an 80 Meg line (it runs at that speed due to being right next to the exchange) I can finally stream HD content from my PC to the laptop. Also really easy to setup just plug and play....highly recommend them.

Edit: not too expensive I got the following from Scan: http://www.scan.co.uk/products/zyxel...ptor-twin-pack @ 30 for a pair I think very reasonable
__________________
System Specs: Asus P8P67 Pro | 2500K @ 4.5Ghz | PNY 570GTX | 16GB XMS 1600Mhz | Be Quiet! Dark Rock Pro | Vertex 3 120 GB | 2TB Samsung HDD | Antec Truepower 650 | Fractal Design XL
Neilc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 17:49   #18
matt_lumley
You're only supposed to...
 
matt_lumley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Manchester (UK)
Posts: 975
matt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for presidentmatt_lumley should be considered for president
I have a PCI one in my rig that has the cable to move the antenna where ever I please really, I'm on the second floor of my house and the router is downstairs on the ground floor. Never dropped below 75% signal as far as i am aware.
matt_lumley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 18:00   #19
GeorgeK
Bit-Tech Keyboard Overlord
Moderator
 
GeorgeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ashford, Kent
Posts: 4,609
GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.GeorgeK is definitely a rep cheat.
Cable all the way - I've never had a wireless card (both USB and PCI) that didn't eventually crap out on me and require disabling / enabling to reconnect to the network... Gigabit ethernet also beats wireless by a factor of 20!
__________________
Main Rig: i7-4770K | Z87 Sabertooth | H100i | EVGA GTX780 SC SLI | 16GB HyperX Beast 2400 | 256GB 840 Pro | 480GB Seagate 600 SSD | 2TB SSHD | X-1050 | Air 540 | U2713HM | Xonar DX | SP2500s
Keyboards: Black Filco TKL - Reds | White Filco TKL - Browns | Filco MiniLA - Browns | Poker w/Plate, Alu Case, Stickered - Lubed 65g Ergo-Clears | Cherry G80-3000 - Browns | Cherry G80-3700 w/Plate - Lubed 65g Ergo-Clears | IBM Model M SSK - Bolt and Floss Modded | HHKB Professional 2 Type-S
GeorgeK is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Nov 2012, 19:55   #20
lp rob1
PAM says no...
 
lp rob1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ::1
Posts: 1,493
lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.lp rob1 is definitely a rep cheat.
As a real world example, I have a dual Cat 6 cable run through the attic. The two parts that took the longest were cutting the coving in the right way (I am a perfectionist) and nailing in the cable holder things onto loft beams. Since you seem to have a simpler project - run a cable from downstairs upstairs, and possibly though walls - you don't have very much coving (if any) to cut, and there is less nailing things down and routing cables. Depending on the layout of your house, I would say that the easiest option is cable up through the ceiling/floor, then along the skirting board through any walls and to its destination. One length of cable trunking for completion's sake, and there you go. Add in a wall jack if you really think it is necessary, or if you want to keep your computer arrangements modular.
__________________
The Linux Schools Project
lp rob1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38.
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.