Windows Can you run Tomb Raider?

[theshadow2001]

Originally Posted by benji2412

From an intellectual property point of view, yes, you're spot on.

But PC games have a much shorter playtime, whereas boardgames are usually kept in storage until christmas or other mass gatherings. You don't often see them being sold secondhand and if they are, it isn't that detrimental to new sales relative to the development costs to make it in the first place. Also nowadays how often do you see new mainstream board games? They've been milking the same cow for many years now with the likes of monopoly. I can honestly say that I haven't seen second hand board games on sale as much as second hand games. Remember that some new board games can be the same price as new PC games. This is my point with respect to it not being the same ball game, not with how intellectual property works.

Ok, so if a product is unoriginal, isn't used very often and has a rarer second market its ok to sell second hand. But if a product none of these then its not ok to sell it second hand . This is some unusual criteria you have.

[ShinyAli]

Originally Posted by October

I've been buying games for around 15 years myself, never saw any second hand PC games except in charity shops, and those were never anything to get excited about. Perhaps my area did suck... Although, really, you would drive 80 miles to a game shop?

Unbelievable! You never saw any used games for sale in a games shop, you obviously never went into any of the GAME outlets much of their stock is used and if you look on their website there is even a "Trade in" tab

Just because lots of kids do it doesn't make it the smart way to do things.

Soo sorry if everyone isn't as smart as you, must be hell having to endure us mere mortals.

really, you would drive 80 miles to a game shop?

You don't know Cornwall very well do you mate, it's barely 80 miles long so, no, I wouldn't have to travel eighty miles to a game shop.

I fail to see how any rational person can think this is a good way to buy games in a world where Steam exists, not to mention all the above stated developer benefits. Again, all this points at (to me) is someone picking an issue for the sake of it, you think that you should be able to sell your games so reasonability be damned. Perhaps you'd be better off on the type of sites we can't talk about here, no money required whatsoever. While it's lovely that you're supporting some local business that's all you're supporting, and it's pretty much the same situation as if you had to pay for a torrent.

So now you insult me and suggest I pirate games just because I think I am entitled to buy a product that has some retail value if I want to sell it, GOD, what an arrogant attitude, must be wonderful being so self righteous as you.

If you don't like my posts and opinions and think I'm a troll then don't waste your time replying, I'll say what I think and I also don't feel sorry for game makers not making any money from used game sales, if they release a good game then it sells and they make a profit and that's all they can expect just like any other manufacturer/retailer and the longevity of their product is irrelevant, would you buy a phone, computer, TV, car, that needed some form of registration/activation after which only you could use it and it had no retail value at all, I wouldn't.

Strange, most people disagree with me but some have left + rep, I'll guess that it probably wasn't you though October...

[Da_Rude_Baboon]

Originally Posted by ShinyAli

Unbelievable! You never saw any used games for sale in a games shop, you obviously never went into any of the GAME outlets much of their stock is used and if you look on their website there is even a "Trade in" tab Soo sorry if everyone isn't as smart as you, must be hell having to endure us mere mortals.

Not PC games no as they were not allowed to sell them.

[MrDomRocks]

Originally Posted by ShinyAli

Unbelievable! You never saw any used games for sale in a games shop, you obviously never went into any of the GAME outlets much of their stock is used and if you look on their website there is even a "Trade in" tab Soo sorry if everyone isn't as smart as you, must be hell having to endure us mere mortals.


</snip>

Heres the thing, Console games yes, trade in to your hearts content. PC games no, hasn't been viable for sometime. Since every AAA rated game is either Steamworks, UPLAY or Origin.

There are many old titles that are pre any of the above that can be traded in yes, but they are worth next to nothing. You say that Steam sucks, no it doesn't now I think this topic is pretty much closed.

The majority of Bit Tech disagree with what you have been saying. The asinine believe that you are right and everyone else is wrong is comical at best. I can walk into my local Game store and find next to no PC titles. All console related. The last game I physically bought from the high street was Skyrim and that was because it was on sale and cheaper than Steam.

Which was rare in itself, Game actually having something cheaper in-store. Possibly because it was a new release and the PC version wasn't selling well at all.

Thats all I have to say on the matter, this has been fun and extremely off topic.

[mars-bar-man]

This thread made me lol.

[rollo]

Game don't allow the trade in of pc games.

Come to think about it I don't know a shop that does since about 4-5 years ago.

Having worked for a second hand games shop there's just too many issues with pc games to take the risk of buying them in. We offered £1 for pc games 5 years back even on new release titles and they never resold.

The ones we did sell had issues with customers coming back saying the codes dont work as every PC game requires a serial of some type.

[benji2412]

Originally Posted by rollo

Game don't allow the trade in of pc games.

Come to think about it I don't know a shop that does since about 4-5 years ago.

Having worked for a second hand games shop there's just too many issues with pc games to take the risk of buying them in. We offered £1 for pc games 5 years back even on new release titles and they never resold.

The ones we did sell had issues with customers coming back saying the codes dont work as every PC game requires a serial of some type.

+1 on that front, I haven't been able to buy second hand PC games in quite some time. One bonus of second hand games though was being able to pick up an older game they wouldn't stock new. I managed to get a copy of HW2 that way. I was tres happy.

[liratheal]

ShinyAli, are you a student/poor?

I can't understand why anyone would, willingly, take a 75% loss on ~4 games to get 1 new one, when they could just wait a couple of months.

I like second hand games, for reasons other people have mentioned - The biggest for me being that some games aren't stocked new any more, but to constantly trade games in is sheer lunacy.

Side note: If you can afford a PC to run new games sold by steam, why are you quibbling about 30-40 quid?

On topic, though: Not sure if I'm looking forward to the new TR. I like that, as a character model, she doesn't have tits made of small moons any more, but I'm kinda worried that this reboot (Isn't it the second one from Crystal Dynamics?) is going to turn her into a whiny emo chick from the trailers I've seen.

[benji2412]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

Ok, so if a product is unoriginal, isn't used very often and has a rarer second market its ok to sell second hand. But if a product none of these then its not ok to sell it second hand . This is some unusual criteria you have.

I don't see how it being sold second hand is an issue when there isn't really a market, no, because as I said it isn't that detrimental to the people selling them brand new.

If you want to be black and white regarding the law and intellectual property, yes you are correct, it doesn't matter about the price/frequency of use/second hand market in respect to the developers getting a cut of sales. But it isn't that clear cut, I would have thought board games have a very small re-sell relative to new purchases when compared to the PC game industry. Compare that with cost to develop/produce and I think you'd agree that the PC gaming industry is damaged more by second hand sales. This is before you even factor in piracy! I think you really have missed my point.

[Shirty]

So this thread's about Tomb Raider is it?

[adidan]

Originally Posted by Shirty

So this thread's about Tomb Raider is it?

Yeah, people are trying to figure out how to sell it before they can actually buy it.

[benji2412]

[October]

Originally Posted by ShinyAli

Unbelievable! You never saw any used games for sale in a games shop, you obviously never went into any of the GAME outlets much of their stock is used and if you look on their website there is even a "Trade in" tab Soo sorry if everyone isn't as smart as you, must be hell having to endure us mere mortals.


You don't know Cornwall very well do you mate, it's barely 80 miles long so, no, I wouldn't have to travel eighty miles to a game shop.



So now you insult me and suggest I pirate games just because I think I am entitled to buy a product that has some retail value if I want to sell it, GOD, what an arrogant attitude, must be wonderful being so self righteous as you.

If you don't like my posts and opinions and think I'm a troll then don't waste your time replying, I'll say what I think and I also don't feel sorry for game makers not making any money from used game sales, if they release a good game then it sells and they make a profit and that's all they can expect just like any other manufacturer/retailer and the longevity of their product is irrelevant, would you buy a phone, computer, TV, car, that needed some form of registration/activation after which only you could use it and it had no retail value at all, I wouldn't.

Strange, most people disagree with me but some have left + rep, I'll guess that it probably wasn't you though October...

You are aware we're talking about PC games right?

Have YOU ever been to Game? How about you go to the very link you just posted and try and find me a second hand PC game. I just had a go, currently listed under pre-owned PC games is Jewel of the Ages (for Nintendo DS) and Football Generation (for PS2). Hmm... Tried a couple of barcodes on the trade-in page, couldn't find a value. Have you any clue what you're talking about?

My local Game (which opened about 10 years ago, and has since shut) never took PC games for trade in, I had a hard enough time returning faulty games. Once the plastic was off they wouldn't go near a PC title.

Anyway, aside from all that, I notice you didn't bother to address any of the actual points I raised. How about trying that like a civilized member of the community instead of resorting to flames and sarcasm...?

By the by the 80 mile reference was the distance between two of your "local" game shops, that's all. I don't live in Cornwall, you're quite right.


On-topic, has no-one else noticed the minimum required AMD quad-core is a dual core?

[mikemorton]

One core for the game, one for Lara's hair?!

http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=257033

[B_HERB]

Originally Posted by Cerberus90

What?????


It's a completely valid point. If your bothered about paying £50 and not being able to sell it on to fund another game, buy it when its cheaper, and you've saved yourself the same amount of money as if you'd bought it for full price then sold it on.

Couldn't agree more. That's why I always wait for the Steam Sales and buy games for dirt cheap.....I don't have to worry about losing a physical copy or possibly damaging it and I get a great price in the process.

[ShinyAli]

October Anyway, aside from all that, I notice you didn't bother to address any of the actual points I raised. How about trying that like a civilized member of the community instead of resorting to flames and sarcasm...?

That's pretty rich coming from you mate with your attitude after you tell me that I would be better off going to a pirate site, when did I ever say that I didn't want to pay for a game, never.
If you can't find a shop that will buy your games try ebay a lot of used games sell well on there and new sealed games are often cheaper on ebay than anywhere else including steam and you never answered all my points either, like I said, if you don't like what I post then don't reply.

[mars-bar-man]

Originally Posted by ShinyAli

/rage rage rage butthurt

God bless the block user button

Sent from the Starship Enterprise

[ShinyAli]

Originally Posted by benji2412

I don't see how it being sold second hand is an issue when there isn't really a market, no, because as I said it isn't that detrimental to the people selling them brand new.

If you want to be black and white regarding the law and intellectual property, yes you are correct, it doesn't matter about the price/frequency of use/second hand market in respect to the developers getting a cut of sales. But it isn't that clear cut, I would have thought board games have a very small re-sell relative to new purchases when compared to the PC game industry. Compare that with cost to develop/produce and I think you'd agree that the PC gaming industry is damaged more by second hand sales. This is before you even factor in piracy! I think you really have missed my point.

What's so special about the computer games industry?
Many products cost more than games to develop and you can resell them, cars for instance cost more than games to develop and people resell them, My main complaint is that the game industry seems to think they are some special case and should be treated differently, in a free economy/market there is no reason why they should be.

The printed word on a page in a book is just data stored, code on a disc is just data stored but once I've bought a book I can resell it as it has some resale value unlike some games that can only be activated once and have no replay value as a used game, other manufacturers on the market have to survive with their products being resold, there is no reason why the games industry should expect to be treated any differently.

[DeckerdBR]

^^^ not related to the guff above.
System specs look reasonable for a multiplatform release.

I watched the game trailers review for Tomb Raider and although I am not really a fan of the normally over gushing reviews they often give out, since the recent format change on GT, while they still do over score, they are at least, more verbally critical on games now.

The theme of the review would seem to be, that the new TR world is well realised and detailed, with a good underlying skills system and a focus on the development of Lara from an inexperienced young woman looking for adventure to the later heroine we have all come to know. However, all the “first kill” moments of animals and human that are so hard for her in the story are made a bit of a mockery off, when she goes on to kill hundreds of the island inhabitants Sam Fisher style in the game play...

I think that’s a bit of a shame, from the review it looks like the game could have done with a lot less enemies but more menace when they do appear. And why in god’s name did they feel the need to shoehorn in some crap looking multiplayer?
I will reserve final judgement until I play it myself next week and I will say that apart from that, it looks pretty ok, although that’s not really a compliment in itself.
GT gave it an 8.5 out of 10, which in reality, probably means a 7/7.5, which is actually fine by me, above the ‘real’ average but less than the gush.

Here is to hoping that it’s not the terrible shitty mess that was aliens colonial marines....

[benji2412]

Originally Posted by ShinyAli

What's so special about the computer games industry?
Many products cost more than games to develop and you can resell them, cars for instance cost more than games to develop and people resell them, My main complaint is that the game industry seems to think they are some special case and should be treated differently, in a free economy/market there is no reason why they should be.

The printed word on a page in a book is just data stored, code on a disc is just data stored but once I've bought a book I can resell it as it has some resale value unlike some games that can only be activated once and have no replay value as a used game, other manufacturers on the market have to survive with their products being resold, there is no reason why the games industry should expect to be treated any differently.

......and when the day comes when people can't pirate the games so they don't have to use steam for DRM, we'll be able to sell them second hand. Have I got to explain every point of mine in detail because you can't understand the simple point I'm trying to raise? It's really all about eliminating piracy, not stopping you from trading them in. Allowing the free sale of PC games second hand makes it easier to pirate games, it doesn't of course mean that it's impossible.

Unreasonable DRM such as that provided by Ubisoft is of course a royal pain even if you bought the game.

Until then, either shut up or buy a console, there's nothing wrong with steam.