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Old 6th Jun 2013, 11:46   #1
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Haswell heat surprises system builders

Retail chips running hotter than samples.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardwar...haswell-heat/1
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 11:49   #2
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15 degree`s hotter - read elsewhere that they are thermal throttling with even a mild overclock on stock cooling as well.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 11:52   #3
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Giant LOL. Seems to be the pattern now for Intel. Almost as if they're trying to drive people over to AMD for overclocking.

I guess they must be saving a lot of money by using cheap thermal paste instead of soldering IHS.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:22   #4
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So, does this mean I'm better off with an i5-3570k and a bit of overclocking? In terms of performance/price?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:26   #5
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And this is one of the main reasons I avoided Ivy Bridge and will be avoiding Haswell.

At the moment, if it turns out that Ivy Bridge E or Haswell E are stupidly hot as well then I will stick with my SB-E setup or switch to back AMD.

There is no way I can currently use LN2 or Dry Ice to cool a cpu, and since that's, pretty much what I would need to get these cpu's up to a decent speed Intel are doing something wrong.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:27   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca
So, does this mean I'm better off with an i5-3570k and a bit of overclocking? In terms of performance/price?
Yeah
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:31   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Tweedle
I guess they must be saving a lot of money by using cheap thermal paste instead of soldering IHS.
It wasn't done to save money.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 12:43   #8
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wonder if they will even bother to fix this :/. they really have no need to even consider fixing this because it operates at their clock rates(although hotter than it should) at a stable temp, and since there is no competition at all in the high end market they dont really have much of a reason to go out of their way to appease the over clockers since those overclockers have no choice but to buy one of their products if they want max performance x.x....... amd needs to pull off a miracle within 5 years and make a decent high end chip, because i can't envision intels high end getting better in either price or extended features(such as OC) until they get at least SOME competition
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca View Post
So, does this mean I'm better off with an i5-3570k and a bit of overclocking? In terms of performance/price?
That is the question, Haswell is 10-15% faster than IB if I understood the review correctly, but you can run your SB/IB at 4.5 wile you run your Haswell at 4.2.

For a moderate OC, SB/IB shuold run 4Ghz on stock voltages and with stock (boxed) cooling, does Haswell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAimNE View Post
wonder if they will even bother to fix this :/. they really have no need to even consider fixing this because it operates at their clock rates(although hotter than it should) at a stable temp.
Depends, haswell was supposed to use less power, if they run hotter, more cooling is needed. 15 more in a notebook is a lot.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:19   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42 View Post
It wasn't done to save money.
Well it saves me money as there is no way I'm buying a Haswell.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:24   #11
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Personally im going to wait for Skylake, Some say memory speed doesn't make much difference but im still looking forward to DDR4.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:29   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Tweedle
I guess they must be saving a lot of money by using cheap thermal paste instead of soldering IHS.
It wasn't done to save money.
Why was it done?

If the type of thermal paste used under the heatspreader is the cause (as is the case with Ivy Bridge), compounded by the current heat generation situation then I would like to think Intel will address this ASAP with a new stepping.

I hope this is not a return to the leakage suffered in the days of Prescott cpu's, because this time round, in terms of outright cpu performance, there's no alternative and no reason to buy this one....I wonder how long IB will remain available as a result?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:41   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverik-sg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Tweedle
I guess they must be saving a lot of money by using cheap thermal paste instead of soldering IHS.
It wasn't done to save money.
Why was it done?
+1 !
The only thing that springs to my mind would be to reduce the chips lifespan !
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:43   #14
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Because with the reduction in die size the thermal-cycling-driven fatigue cracking
between the indium and the indium-gold intermetallic became uncontrollable leading to voids forming in the solder.

For a more detailed study this make very interesting reading The Material Optimization and Reliability Characterization of an Indium-Solder Thermal Interface Material for CPU Packaging (warning PDF)
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lister
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverik-sg1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanley Tweedle
I guess they must be saving a lot of money by using cheap thermal paste instead of soldering IHS.
It wasn't done to save money.
Why was it done?

+1 !
The only thing that springs to my mind would be to reduce the chips lifespan !
People need to start slicing the tops off their Haswells to get those temps down. Then again they could always use liquid and Aquarium chiller.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:47   #16
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Oh. Worse than IB? I'll be sticking with my trusty SB chip then...
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 13:57   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpaca
So, does this mean I'm better off with an i5-3570k and a bit of overclocking? In terms of performance/price?
To be honest, you'd probably be better off with a 2500K, the 3570K runs hot too!
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:17   #18
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According to some tests a guy on a forum did with a delidded IVB chip (sorry, no link), the problem with high temperatures is NOT due to the quality of the TIM or the IHS. The real problem is that Intel slap on too much, so the heat is not being conducted to the heatsink properly.

When users delid their chip and replace the TIM, they use a thinner layer so they see a reduction in temperatures. Even if they used the TIM Intel is using, they'd still see an equivalent reduction.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:26   #19
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Quote:
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According to some tests a guy on a forum did with a delidded IVB chip (sorry, no link), the problem with high temperatures is NOT due to the quality of the TIM or the IHS. The real problem is that Intel slap on too much, so the heat is not being conducted to the heatsink properly.

When users delid their chip and replace the TIM, they use a thinner layer so they see a reduction in temperatures. Even if they used the TIM Intel is using, they'd still see an equivalent reduction.
To bad you have void the warranty on the cpu to fix the mistake Intel made.

Reminds of the Rampage III Extreme issue, where if you took of the heatsink for the north and south bridge chips and applied new thermal paste, you fixed a issue where the board would report your cpu as overheating even running at stock speed.

Atleast Asus fixed that issue though.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 14:35   #20
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Are we overestimating how many 'overclockers' there are out there I wonder?

And those that do fall into the magical moderate category... at what point does it stop being moderate? Over a certain voltage threshold? Over a certain ghz?

I have friends that want an overclock... none are interested into what I'd guess is called, a moderate overclock. Surely there is everyday and extreme? If I was to dish out labels that is. And this depends on cooling capabilities... and moderation was required to reach those limits. Perhaps those are moderate overclocks...
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