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Old 10th Apr 2014, 09:04   #1
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Do case manufacturers really understand water cooling?

Antony questions whether case manufacturers are really taking water cooling seriously, or just doing the minimum to meet check-list criteria...

http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2014/04...nderstand-wat/
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 09:36   #2
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Dude can't cool an overclocked Core i5-3570K and GeForce 660 Ti on a dual 120 rad? That's only 230W-ish, tops. He's doing something wrong. I'm cooling 240W on a single BIX.

Anyway, it is pretty difficult to create a case for PC components that were designed to be in a strict particular orientation towards each other and the case, and still have room for a decent watercooling system, without ending up with a huge monster case that ate Detroit.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:02   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo View Post
Dude can't cool an overclocked Core i5-3570K and GeForce 660 Ti on a dual 120 rad? That's only 230W-ish, tops. He's doing something wrong. I'm cooling 240W on a single BIX.

Anyway, it is pretty difficult to create a case for PC components that were designed to be in a strict particular orientation towards each other and the case, and still have room for a decent watercooling system, without ending up with a huge monster case that ate Detroit.
Didn't say it couldn't cool it just that I had to have the fans at 12v to cope with lengthy gaming sessions - I usually like to have them between 5 and 7v otherwise the fans are by far the noisiest components in the PC.

I don't think it is that difficult. As I mentioned, many cases we've reviewed recently just needed minor changes like making the case a tad wider or really maximising the fan mount clearance. The PC-V360 is a classic example.
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Is the res loud, like, constantly making you need a piss loud?
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:02   #4
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I have to disagree, If water cooling was a major consideration at the earliest design points of a case then it should be relatively easy, we just need the "big" names in cases to pull their fingers out as water cooling isn't going away.

It took years for case manufacturers to realise we didn't want plain beige boxes for our pc'sand they don't seem to be paying too much attention even now with all-in-one coolers.

All a case manufacturer has to do is look in the modding forums at what people are doing to their cases to fit water cooling to get the idea and convert it into a real case design.

I'd love to have the money to start up a small case company as I reckon the designs I have penned up til now would sell very well for water cooler users.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:07   #5
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Talk to Partum systems. They work in acrylic, but their equipment should manage 3mm aluminium. About time they branch out their range a bit.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:07   #6
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I'd definitely like to see some more considerations being made for reservoirs. I think a lot of the time now, even mid-towers are capable of putting in so much radiator, that you don't need thick ones. The H440 can fit 2x360mm rads and the 450D a 360 + 280, and this is using a stock configuration. That's just insane, imagine taking either one of those case back to 2009, people would be gobsmacked. You don't need thick rads if you fill up the space on those.

However, they do have the issue of not having many spots for reservoirs you're right. Phantek's have done a good job of tackling this subject with their Enthoo Primo, as Have Corsair with their 900D, but those are massive cases where finding a space isn't hard.

Still, it's progress. Clearly manufacturers are taking custom loops into account (which is much better than in the past), so I would expect to see these features making their way into cases pretty soon.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:11   #7
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Even the TJ-07 which is a premium case with watercooling in mind required quite a lot of modification from me to fit my loops. The top only accommodates a slim 240mm radiator, I had to get the case modified to fit a slim 360mm radiator to cope with cooling a i7 920 @ 4Ghz, the MOSFETS, motherboard and RAM. The bottom section is reserved for a normal thickness 360mm radiator without much modification (just a radiator mount) to cool the GPUs. I had to completely fabricate a new method to hold the dual D5s and reservoirs within the bottom 3 5.25" bays.
Baring in mind this is a 200+ case, I'd say they still have some work to do.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 10:24   #8
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It doesn't help when the mainstream manufacturers specifically design their cases with only enough room to accommodate AIOs, when they also make AIOs. Yeah, promote your own products, but not at the expense of other options.

I've given up looking at case reviews from a certain manufacturer, because of their bias in this area.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 11:44   #9
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have to say i am keeping a 4770k @4.6ghz 1.3v and a R9 280X both well under 50c whilst gaming with an EK XTX 240mm and 2 Enermax Cluster Advance Fans and is pretty much silent this is in and AeroCool Dead Silence case that is not exactly the biggest or greatest at cooling
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 12:03   #10
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Manufacturers don't even put too much thought into aircooling, so why should their products be any better for watercooling?

The biggest problem with most cases is, that they still have tons of unnecessary 5.1/4" and 3.1/2" trays. Get rid of them and you automatically gain more room for radiators and better airflow.

Put the PSU in the bottom and a single 5.1/4" and two 3.1/2" trays infront at the bottom. That way you've got the whole rest of the front and the whole top for radiators not blocked by anything. Just food for thoughts.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 12:13   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurdeep14 View Post
Even the TJ-07 which is a premium case with watercooling in mind required quite a lot of modification from me to fit my loops. The top only accommodates a slim 240mm radiator, I had to get the case modified to fit a slim 360mm radiator to cope with cooling a i7 920 @ 4Ghz, the MOSFETS, motherboard and RAM. The bottom section is reserved for a normal thickness 360mm radiator without much modification (just a radiator mount) to cool the GPUs. I had to completely fabricate a new method to hold the dual D5s and reservoirs within the bottom 3 5.25" bays.
Baring in mind this is a 200+ case, I'd say they still have some work to do.
The TJ07 was an Awesome case for it's time, as water cooling was only really starting to show up.

I had 3 loops in that case back in 2010 with 1x slim 240 rad in the top along with 1x 240 & 1x 360 rad in the bottom.

Clicky

So as the likes of the Corsair 760T case, you can mount a full size 120.3 rad in the roof along with a oversized 120.2 rad in the front without any modifying.

So case manufactures like Corsair are listening to their costumers and accommodating for custom waterloops.

I have some great plans for when my 760T case turns up.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 12:14   #12
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Water cooling is complicated and over the years ive resorted to wierd case mods to get the stuff inside and outside of the case. My current setup has the 360 rad outside of the case with the fans on 5v.

It can fit inside the case but the problem then becomes higher fan speed requirements for the same temperature.

And thats with a case designed for water cooling the NZXT Phantom that you reviewed a few years back.

PSU in bottom is how the phantom does it and theres still not alot of room unless your removing drive bays and hd spacers. Niether is really that realistic for most users.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:08   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by true_gamer View Post
The TJ07 was an Awesome case for it's time, as water cooling was only really starting to show up.

I had 3 loops in that case back in 2010 with 1x slim 240 rad in the top along with 1x 240 & 1x 360 rad in the bottom.

Clicky

So as the likes of the Corsair 760T case, you can mount a full size 120.3 rad in the roof along with a oversized 120.2 rad in the front without any modifying.

So case manufactures like Corsair are listening to their costumers and accommodating for custom waterloops.

I have some great plans for when my 760T case turns up.
Nice, I went for a 360 in the rood and a 360 in the bottom, because I wanted some space at the bottom for cables and to mount the pumps and reservoirs
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:10   #14
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Quote:
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Talk to Partum systems. They work in acrylic, but their equipment should manage 3mm aluminium. About time they branch out their range a bit.
Parvum innit.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:16   #15
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I personally don't understand watercooling. What with the lower TDP of CPU's and most other components the need for it is becoming moot, unless you're a major overclocker.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:29   #16
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I personally don't understand watercooling. What with the lower TDP of CPU's and most other components the need for it is becoming moot, unless you're a major overclocker.
Thing is, watercooling is about much more than overclocking. Air cooling is for the most part very much a "black box" solution, you can't really put your own stamp on it as much. Sure you can add shrouds, change fans etc. but your options are very limited. Watercooling on the other hand offers a huge amount of freedom. You can express so much simply through how you choose to use it. It can also be a fun challenge to try and see just how far you can take it. It's basically a full on hobby, the Raspberry Pi doesn't even need a cooler, didn't stop Phame from watercooling one for the hell of it.

Not to mention that whilst the TDPs on many/most parts are indeed going down, there are still notable exceptions. Top end GPUs are still power hungry beasts, Intel's Sandy/Ivy-e chips are also very power hungry, especially when overclocked. AMD's latest CPU offerings have 220W TDPs, with their normal versions still clocking in at 130W. That's a lot of heat for any air cooler, even the very best. Start overclocking even a reasonable amount and you'll find the fans spinning up a lot.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:49   #17
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Ill just leave this here.

I strongly urge you to have a good read of that thread from start to finish, because chap made a number of valid points huehuehue.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:55   #18
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I personally don't understand watercooling. What with the lower TDP of CPU's and most other components the need for it is becoming moot, unless you're a major overclocker.
One thing, and most important to me, about watercooling - you can add enough rad to a loop to keep your rig cool even for extended gaming/benching sessions without any increase in fan speed or noise output.

I've stripped and sold off my loops twice now, but I still keep coming back. I'm not going to say it's for everyone, and I'm not going to pretend that it's essential but, for me at least, it is worth it.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 13:57   #19
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Ill just leave this here.

I strongly urge you to have a good read of that thread from start to finish, because chap made a number of valid points huehuehue.
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That asshat doesn't need the coverage or encouragement, Nick.
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Old 10th Apr 2014, 14:02   #20
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I have a theory that chap (who recently returned after an 18 month hiatus with this gem) is actually one of the first sentient computers connected to the internet.

He's not very good at much yet, but he's learning. We should welcome his occasional presence at Bit-tech.
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