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Old 21st Dec 2004, 15:46   #1
AutoExec
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Silent Suitcase - Ultimate silent LAN suitcase

I'm back! (for those of you that remember the typhoon cube.. which, unfortunatly, was never finished)

This time I would like to make my computer as portable and silent as possible, but still with an acceptable cooling system. That is why I this time decided to brake the cooling system in two parts: A pretty regular water system which includes cooling for 2 harddrives, cpu, gpu, chipset and probably 2 PSU's. This system will be driven by an Eheim 1250 (1200l/h) and cooled by two 120mm black ice extreme radiators. Then There is the matter of cooling the radiators without the use of noisy fans. I'm not sure how well this part will actually work, but I'll give it a try. I will seal the radiators on both sides useing copper plates. Then I will fill the space where the air would otherwise pass, with water. Next I will attach one 180W peltier on eatch radiator which will be cooled by a separate water system driven by a small 600l/h pump and a passive innovatek radiator. No fans are planned used in this project.


Here is the layout of the suitcase at the moment. The two PSU's will be mounted beside the motherboard. Its tight.. very tight.. But I think it should work.


To get the dvd burner as close to the pump as possible, I had to cut the nipple a bit.


I love these 90 degrees bends


Here I'm deperatly trying to figure out what tubes are supposed to go where.


This is going to cause a bit of a problem.. those two openings in the center are supposed to join.. somehow..


Like this.. the space between the harddrive block and the radiator was so tight I had to kut both the nipple and the tube in an angle and mount it that way. This worked thanks to the tube being a larger dimention than the nipple.



Here I've figured out about where the tubes are supposed to go



And I've even started cuting Done fitting the cover plate for the motherboard



Thats about as far as I've gotten so far. I'm on holliday now, so it probably wont happen much until after newyear.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 15:54   #2
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woow , looks pretty cool.
I've seen watercooled suitcases before, but none of them had there hard drives watercooled, nor dual PSU
what fan are you going to use on those rads ?
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 15:57   #3
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eek, all those 90* bends are going to cause an enourmous loss in flow. Some of those runs between parts would be better off using a longer route of just plain tubing then using 90* bends and trying jam it in . I'm not knocking your work, just giving my 2cents, or rather 2.61c AUD

Anyhow, the project looks promising. Whats the specs?
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 16:39   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brubacker
woow , looks pretty cool.
I've seen watercooled suitcases before, but none of them had there hard drives watercooled, nor dual PSU
what fan are you going to use on those rads ?
read damnit!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMM
eek, all those 90* bends are going to cause an enourmous loss in flow. Some of those runs between parts would be better off using a longer route of just plain tubing then using 90* bends and trying jam it in . I'm not knocking your work, just giving my 2cents, or rather 2.61c AUD

Anyhow, the project looks promising. Whats the specs?
plain tube couldnt possibly be making those turns. Maybe I could have replaced a few of them with tube, but most of them would have to stay. Besides: the slower the water is going through, the more it will be heated from the hardware, but it will also stay longer in the radiators.. thats my theory anyways.

specs:
MSI K8N Neo Platinum edition (754)
AMD64 3200+
2x512mb Corsair twinx PC4000pro
ATI radeon 9600SE (will be replaced.. probably by 9800pro)
120+300GB hardrive
DVD burner
350W+400W PSU
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 17:17   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoExec
read damnit!



plain tube couldnt possibly be making those turns. Maybe I could have replaced a few of them with tube, but most of them would have to stay. Besides: the slower the water is going through, the more it will be heated from the hardware, but it will also stay longer in the radiators.. thats my theory anyways.
DID you know, that in it has been proven, weatehr you have more flow, or less flow, in the end they both equal the cooling powahh?

I read a whole article on it before.. cant remeber where it is though ill have to have a search!


But project is looking promising, keep up the good work
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 17:39   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch
DID you know, that in it has been proven, weatehr you have more flow, or less flow, in the end they both equal the cooling powahh?

I read a whole article on it before.. cant remeber where it is though ill have to have a search!
hey.. thats great news!!
It just used reason and logic to get to that conclution.. didnt know it actually had been proven

That makes me a bit more confident on the flow part at least.. there are still some problemzs I might have to face though, but I'll take them as they come
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 18:10   #7
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That is actually not true at all!

Each water atom can hold a particular ammount of heat (energy), so the more water atoms that hit your waterblock (higher flow - more water) the more heat (energy) it will pick up. Higher flow will also mean more water atoms hitting your radiatior which will also carry more heat. The more atoms you can push into your radiator the more heat it can dissipate from it. This is according to the laws of physic and thermodynamics.


If you're interessted in reading more about it i suggest forums.procooling.com for a good read.

Another good read where they explain why the myth about "having the water in the radiator longer is better", actually is wrong;

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=78055


Right, that should probably cover everyhting on flow


And oh, very nice project. I'd also like a cool, silent and portable lan-pc myself.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 18:16   #8
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hmm.. oh well.. if it works, it works. If not, I'll make some changes. I'm not looking to get the best computer for benchmarking. The main priorities are noise and portability. But it has to be stabile.. thats all I ask.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 18:20   #9
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Nice work
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 23:05   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldor
That is actually not true at all!

Each water atom can hold a particular ammount of heat (energy), so the more water atoms that hit your waterblock (higher flow - more water) the more heat (energy) it will pick up.
but then again... it will take a sertain amount of time to transfer that energy (in the form of heat), to the water. so if the flow is very high, it should be less efficient.. but i don't think that pump is able to cause the water to run THAT fast through the system I think the system will be more than cool enough. I'm just a little worried about the psu's..

This project is really really cool! I think you're the first person in the world to tec cool a radiator! and to cool it with another water system looking forward to see it develop! good luck mate
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 23:09   #11
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thanks!

I know I'm not the first one to attempt to tec cool water in a watercooling system, but I might be the first one who attempts to tec cool a stock radiator
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 23:28   #12
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Acid burn:

You're missing the logic in the reasoning. The more flow you've got, the higher your heat tranfer will be and the lower your temps will get. Allways. No exeption. Never, ever. Those are just the laws of physic


Have a read in the thread i posted, there you'll find some equations (thermodynamics) which proves that more flow/head=better temps if you disregard the heat the pump puts out. (Which in this case is nothing really).
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 23:34   #13
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I've decided to do some math on the topic, but can anyone help me find, or tell me, how much effect all the components develup? Kind of hard to come past that kind of information. The components would be an Athlon64 3200+, an ATI 9800pro gpu, one 7500rpm and one 5400rpm harddrive (if I remember the speeds correctly. One normal speed and one low speed.), and the chipset on MSI K8N Neo Platinum edition.
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Old 21st Dec 2004, 23:47   #14
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Stock A64 3200+ is 89W for Newcastle and 82W for Winchester. Radeon 9800PRO should be less, about 50W should be close to reality and the harddrives should both be less then 10W's each. If you want to do some calcs you have the formulas posted in the overclockers thread i posted earlier, or go over to forums.procooling.com and I'm sure they'll help you with formulas and calculations. It's fun to calculate everyhting, but do keep in mind that there are a set of rules in nature one simply cannot forget about. The rules of thermodynamics being a few of them. It's like gravity.


Edit.

Here are some useful links i thought you might be interessted in. I'm sure you will find it useful when you set up your pelt for instance.


http://thermal-management-testing.com/

http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=105


And here is a little extract from an article which Greenman over at procooling wrote:
http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/sho...thermodynamics


"Myths about Water and Flow

Myth: Water must slow down to fully absorb heat.
Reality: In a closed loop, a given water molecule actually spends the same amount of time in the radiator no matter how fast it is moving, as long as the water is indeed moving. If this is a difficult concept to understand, think about a racecar on a track. If the track is 1 mile (5280 ft) long and the car is driving at 60 mph, the car will spend about 1 second in a 100 ft stretch. Think of the 100 ft stretch as the radiator. Now, if the speed is doubled, the car only spends ½ a second in the 100ft section, but it passes through that same section twice a minute, so it spends a total of 1 second in the 100ft section per minute. If this is unclear, please post.

Myth: Order of components makes a significant impact on temps. (e.g. radiator must be before CPU)
Reality: Order of components makes a difference of less than .5C in most watercooling systems. The physics:
pump---->radiator---->CPU---->pump
pump---->CPU---->radiator---->pump
There is only one difference, and that is the position of the pump in the loop, be ir before it after the CPU.
Assuming the pump dumps about 50w of heat into the water, and flow rate is 1GPM (very reasonable):
Water has a thermal capacity of 4186J/Kg-C at 22C, and a density of about 1g/mL
With a flowrate of 1GPM, that’s ~3.75LitersPM.
3.75LPM/60 seconds= 0.0625Liters or Kilograms through the waterblocks per second.
4186*0.0625=261.625W/C
So that's 1C warmer for every 261W
But only 50 watts of heat are present, so: 50/261.625=.19C
So, there is a .19C difference in water temperature between the inlet and outlet of the pump. This does not mean the water is only .19C warmer than air, that is an entirely different calculation.
And that’s with 50 watts. If you’re running a smaller pump, like the D4, you're looking at 15w or so.
So, do what allows for the simplest tubing runs, tubing length/kinking will have a greater impact on temps.
"


Hope it clears things up! Keep up the very good modding work!
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 00:06   #15
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wow you know your stuff noldor!
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 00:09   #16
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wow.. only had a glance on it all, but it looks very usefull. Thanks!!

edit: I see I havent mentioned it, but I am going to devide the water in two loops: one loop covering cpu, chipset and probably one PSU. The other loop covering the graphics card, the harddrives and probably one PSU. By assigning some kind of flow controller (and indicators) on at least one loop, I can make more water go through the cpu loop than the other loop if needed.

I know this interfers even more with the flow rate, but I still thought it was a good idea.. makes it easier to destribute the cooling more effectively.

If I had room for it I would surely have put one more Eheim1250 in the system to really force the water through, but there just is no room.. the suitcase will be stuffed to its limit once I mount the PSU's and the other small pump.
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 00:24   #17
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Water flow shouldn't make much of a difference unless the processor has more than enough time to transfer 4.184 calories. Anyways... I've always wanted to try a peltier-cooled water cooling system. I wish you luck!
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Old 22nd Dec 2004, 18:33   #18
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:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Harddrive-Flow regulator:::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::/:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::\:::::::::::::
:::::::::::::Radiator-GPU-PSU:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::-::::::::::::
:::::::::::/:::::::::::::::::::::\:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :/:\:::::::::::
::::::::::/::::::::::::::::::::::::Harddrive-Flow regulator::::\::::::::::
::::Pump:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::: Pump::::
::::::::::\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::/:::::::::::
:::::::::::\:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :::::::::::::::/::::::::::::
:::::::::::::Flow regulator--Radiator--CPU--chipset--PSU:::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


There you have it... now I just need to find some deacent sized flow regulators.. or invent some. The reason I split it at the harddrives too are the poor flow through the harddrive blocks.
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Last edited by AutoExec; 22nd Dec 2004 at 18:40.
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Old 23rd Dec 2004, 15:47   #19
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Have you considered :

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/coolsleeves.asp

Thoughts?

PS: looking good
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Old 23rd Dec 2004, 15:51   #20
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Looks pretty cool. There's definately a certain skill in fitting a PC into something small and unusual. Those coolsleeves look good, I've never seen those before. Might increase the tube diameter unnecessarily though.
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