Equipment First DSLR what to choose

Cheers I will check them out see what i like

 

I don't need to defend anything nor do I fear to be challenged. The facts are out there. And before you continue to put words into my mouth I'd like to correct your assertion that I feel 4/3's IQ is "crap" compared to Canon--which again is a silly comment. You claim JJ and I are "Canikon" fanboys yet here you are waving your Oly 4/3 flag spouting ignoramus and misleading comments.

 

They are pricey though, you could probably find the same stuff online cheaper, but for viewing..well its a no brainer.

 

The only thing I've done is present facts and point out blatant falsehoods. If you want to call that 'looking down on' be my guest.

 

Bottom line, I said, rather meant that kit lenses with 4/3 had better IQ. That made you and JJ's blood boil. Like I said, I had a differing opinion to you and you did your best to try and have some kind of elitist stance. It's ok to be proud, that is fine. Just don't be disrectful and condescending.

 

Again, you have it wrong. APS-C sensors only use the center of 35mm (EF/FX) lenses. When you mount a DX/EF-S lens on a APS-C sensor, it uses the whole image circle as they were designed to be smaller/lighter/cheaper then 35mm lenses. If you were to mount an EF-S/DX lens on an even smaller sensor, like the 4/3rds one, it would only use the center sweet spot. BUT, 4/3rds lenses were designed to be even smaller/lighter/cheaper, and so the 4/3rds sensor uses the whole image circle of a 4/3rds lens. And the 4/3rds sensor is tiny, it's 1/2 the size of a 35mm film plane; hence the 2x conversion.

35mm > APS-C > 4/3rds > m4/3rds. The smaller the sensor, the smaller you can design the lens. There is no big lens/small sensor advantage on the 4/3rds mount. It's a recent design with no legacy lenses like with old Canon and Nikon film lenses.

It didn't make my blood boil. It's blatantly based on wrong information. And that isn't what the guy needs to make an informed decision. You presenting wrong information doesn't make me an elitist. Me trying to make sure someone invests his money based on his wants and future needs doesn't make me an elitist. It makes me helpful.

 

Mate, you started this along with JJ by homing in on my IQ is better quote, expounding it in the wrong direction for self promotion and then when I explained it, pulling it to bits without any valid argument.

As soon as I posted what I did you were blatantly all smug and superior with your mate JJ, with your 'i'll be waiting for that one too' comment. If that is not your elitist stance then what is ?

 

!? Oh. boy. You're making yourself look terribly smart, now aren't you?
http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/451-oly_1442_3556?start=1
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/181-canon-ef-s-18-55mm-f35-56-is-test-report--review?start=1

 

YOU MADE A FALSE STATEMENT. As in it isn't true and there is absolutely not one shred of evidence to prove otherwise. You can make every attempt to twist it into something its not, by calling me an 'elitist' or painting me a 'fanboy', but the simple, down to the dirt fact of the matter is your comment holds not a drop of water and it is completely misleading to those who view these boards to gather useful information.

 

I think next time someone comes here asking about their first DSLR, we tell them to go to a shop and ask the dude behind the counter to explain the pros and cons of the available systems.

This is like arguing pizza toppings.

 

Micro 4/3 uses the same sized sensor as 4/3.

The smaller size of the body is achieved by dispensing with the traditional SLR mirror and (in most cases) optical viewfinder.

 

You're right, I'm an elitist. But I'm right. I make a living being right. I get paid to teach, because I'm right.

Just because you can't understand the relationship between sensor size, lens design and the size of the resulting image circle doesn't mean I'm going to let you get away with blatantly false statements. Especially with someone is looking to make a long term decision. He's been around this forum a while and deserves a straight and well informed answer. Not BS.

If that makes me an elitist, fine.

He'll buy a Canon, and learn to use it. In 5 years, he'll get a better body and a 17mm TE. And be happy he doesn't need to sell a few grand worth of Oly stuff at a massive loss. He'll say; "Wow, I'm sure glad I listened to the informed elitist. I now have what I need and a back up lens/body to boot."

Yes, but the lenses and mount are smaller, because they are closer to the film plane and so the resulting image circle is different. Again, you don't seem to understand the relationship between the different components of a camera system. m4/3rds lenses can not be used on a 4/3rds body, where as 4/3rds lenses can be used on a m4/3rds body with an adapter.

 

@ Cybergenics;

Time to take a step back and chill-out. You're not helping yourself by attacking people's statements. The idea of this thread is discussion, not arguing.

 

You are an Elitist. Ok. You also appear to be a little fat man with a beard and a loud mouth.
All the expert knowledge in the world won't change that. Now i'm sure that when you get done teaching all your knowledge to the whole world and there is no more to be had, there is a Burger King near the trailer park you live in that are looking for a night manager.

 

Cybergenics: debate, don't denigrate. You sound like a bright guy so you don't need to resort to name calling just to express how strongly you disagree with something.

Post one more insult and it's the banhammer, OK?

 

Did anyone else in this thread attack me for my opinion besides out stateside brothers ?

No, they didn't. Seems there is no room for a difference of opinion. Now you are not my dad, or a moderator.

If they want to ban/censor/whatever I have put, I would hope they take time to understand my viewpoint. It appeared to me that I was unable to have an opinion, that is what is known as oppression. I simply highlighted this point and our brothers stateside got upset.

Maybe it is a cultural difference thing, I don't know. But where I come from (Wales) it is ok to disagree with someone else without them having to resort to a lengthy tirade.

 

Thanks for all your advise as this is turning into abit of a flame war i shall exit at this point

 

Holy ****, he's the Dungeon Master? That is pretty cool actually.

Might be time for everyone to chill, stop replying and let this thread sink.

 

Ok, I am sorry. I did try to debate constructively but the response was that of (perceived) superiority, which left me with no choice but to descend into the realms of insults.

As it happens, I am reasonably bright, I have a Doctorate in Endocrine Physiology but didn't get into it career wise.

 

This is true, I am neither. However it is advice.

Opinions can differ of course, but arguing is completely different to discussion.

I'm sure sirkillalot would rather peoples experiences and opinions to help his decision, rather than a thread of arguing.


I can vouch for Nikon, however that is the only brand I have used. I have however owned a variety of bodies and glass from entry level to professional series. From this I have derived that, you do get what you pay for in terms of quality, however the real quality comes from the person using the camera and their skills. This part does happen to be unbranded.

I'd like to offer my opinions on 4/3's and Canon, however I haven't had the extent of use as that as the Nikon range so feel i can contribute to the discussion on that specifically.