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WikiLeaks and The Guardian - The Afghan War Logs

Discussion in 'Serious' started by NuTech, 26 Jul 2010.

  1. Gh0stDrag0n

    Gh0stDrag0n Unleash the Beast!

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    There is nothing "just" or honourable in war. It is hell.
     
  2. NuTech

    NuTech Minimodder

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    Noooooo, we can't do that!

    If we do, it might stop young men deciding to die for the problems of old men.

    And we can't have that now, can we?
     
  3. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Do you think that people who enlist aren't aware of current events? Or that they aren't aware that they may be called into service, fighting battles which they may not agree with? That's pretty patronising to be honest. Just because a person decides to join up doesn't mean they are ignorant to the real problems behind conflicts. Most join up for more personal reasons than doing their bit for their country, and are aware of the ******** the government feeds them.
     
  4. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Perhaps some people enlist knowing full well that they're being sent to war to line corporate pockets. I think most enlist based on propaganda created by the military recruitment machine: serve a couple years, jump out of airplanes, learn job skills, get paid to work out. It's always portrayed as exciting. In addition, recruitment is often focused on low-to-middle class high school graduates (with recruitment presence much earlier). Young people (especially young boys) are impetuous, and are easily swayed by flashy videos showing army guys playing a grown-up version of paintball. They are aware of current events, but too often it's framed in the context of America fighting the evil forces of The Decepticons Osama bin Laden Taliban Socialists (Insert generic bad guy of the day here).
     
  5. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    A war also suggests a kind of equal footing, this is not a war. it's a slaughter.
     
  6. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Multimodder

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    Personal reasons usually means money (particularly in the US)

    If a person decides to support an unjust agenda for monetary reward then they are just as parasitic as the corrupt system they're supporting...

    The middle eastern wars are just another example of privatised profits and socialized risk (wait til the tax raises really start to kick in). If there was a risk of death or injury in the banking profession would that change our feelings towards them?
     
  7. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Agreed on both. It's dangerous to be giving out operational information while the war is still being fought. It's very easy to deem information safe just because we don't see anything useful, and even our own soldiers and intelligence officers don't see a use for, but such things are still kept classified precisely because no one knows what small bit of overlooked information might be critical to an enemy's plan. Take that Task Force 373, I'm sure they'll be real happy when something from this leak leads to them being ambushed and killed during an operation (or is that their punishment now?), or a small detail leads to their next target (who they might be legitimately trying to capture) knowing they're coming and getting away. It's downright reckless to simply dump a lump of imformation onto a site like WikiLeaks, all anyone wants to hear about is what soldiers messed up anyway. Just a way to feed the bloodthirsty public more fresh meat to tear at and putting lives at risk in the process.
     
  8. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    I think you need to take a reality check here. Soldiers in the UK, and the US are on worse wages than some manual workers, so how in the hell does one join for financial reward.

    I was referring to people who join up for reasons like service presenting a personal challenge, both physically and mentally. Some people just aren't cut out for 9-5 and want more adventure. Then there are people who are failing in civilian life, and need the struture and discipline of service life. There are a multitude of reasons, but I doubt very much monetary gain factors in very often.
     
  9. NuTech

    NuTech Minimodder

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    Guys, bear in mind that Wikileaks has agreed to redact and trickle out around 15,000 of the more sensitive logs over the coming years.

    So try to give them some credit for their discretion instead of just assuming they're being reckless in regards to the lives of others.

    Also, did anyone catch the correspondent on BBC News who dropped not-so-subtle hints of this being an intentional leak by the White House? She theorised that due to most of the reports covering the Bush years, the Obama administration might have leaked them in order to give the public an idea of the kind of mess he inherited from Bush. Far fetched, but possible IMO.
     
  10. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Multimodder

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    So what you're saying is that it's ok to enable war for profit...because the krypton factor was cancelled? :D
     
    NuTech likes this.
  11. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    my cousin was over in iraq.. it's gorilla war- like they used to laugh after a conflict they'd see women in burkas wearing combat boots walking away from the zone.. hard to fight guys who blend into the local population

    the covert operations.. those are supposed to be classified- the video with the chopper mowing down photographers.. that's news I want to see- might change the way they call those

    the iraq war shouldn't even have happened.. that's the saddest part of it all
     
  12. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    You seem to have some sort of problem with armed service personnel. That's your problem, and I don't want to know.:thumb:
     
  13. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    That's akin to closing the gate after the horse has bolted though. They should have ensured the sensitive stuff was never published to the internet in the first place.

    I did wonder myself. It seems weird that the US government has basically sat back, let it happen, and then got the hump. I did notice that the documents did stress the time period a bit too forceably.
     
  14. NuTech

    NuTech Minimodder

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    And exactly what sensitive 'stuff' are you talking about?

    I personally have yet to see anything that makes me think "oh noes, our boys are going to get slaughtered!!111".

    It's mostly information we already knew, just laid out chronologically in black and white and not as gift-wrapped.
     
  15. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Wow, do you just disagree with me for the feck of it??:D

    Let me see:


    So first you are saying that there were 15,000 more sensitive logs that have been published already, and when I say that removing them after they have been published is a little too late, then I am wrong for doing so?
     
  16. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

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    I can't stand the wiki leaks guy.. something in his eyes- they're dead =p
     
  17. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    And what training and knowledge have you that gives you the certainty that nothing of strategic value was included within these documents?

    Until this is either confirmed or disproved, I would have liked to have seen wikileaks err on the side of caution, until they were sure.
     
  18. NuTech

    NuTech Minimodder

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    No, those 15,000 sensitive logs have yet to be published.

    Instead they will be publish over time as the Afghan situation improves and the highly sensitive parts will be redacted. Wikileaks have already said this. Did you bother read the links? :confused:
     
  19. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Multimodder

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    Actually I was just winding you up to see what you'd say...

    this is for you

     
  20. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    :D My apologies. I did read some of the stuff, but clearly did miss that part. I still find it worrying that it's wikileaks who are deciding what information is to be released, and when. The potential for problems is one worth taking seriously, as there could be information that wikileaks deem to be not strategically important, that could compromise operating procedures. They simply do not have the training or experience to be able to judge what is strategically important, and what is not.
     
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