Windows Don't buy MOH if you're British

We fail to prevent many atrocities, but we don't sanction them, surely? Our laws are very liberal and huggy-friendly, generally. Our policemen can't even search us without reasonable cause. I'd say we have morals up the rear passage. The atrocities are committed by a few random wayward members of our society, not at the behest of our leaders. And even then, our atrocities are fairly mundane. Some prisoners tied up naked here, one old guy going crazy and shooting pedestrians there. Compared to some of the activities officially and repeatedly sanctioned by the Taliban, that's a trip to the corner shop.

Honestly, I know it makes me a bit jingoist, but I'm comfortable saying that the Taliban are horrifically amoral and that we're mostly good guys. That's just how it looks to me. I agree with you that nobody's perfect, and that there are probably plenty of conscientious, right-in-their-own-minds people in the Taliban, but judging both groups/societies by their overall effects, "Angels and Devils" isn't too far off.

 

ffs, ive just read all this.

I'm a soldier have been for the last 13 years and willdo for the next ten. Ive been ot iraq and afghan fighting them getting shot at by them etc etc. waking up in the morning to another one of there dodgy mortars landing near us.

I have had friends killed out there and had to speak to there wives on return, my wife herself having to help them during the hard times whilst also worrying baout me being out there.

Is this going to stop me from buying the game......???? hell no.

Its a fecking game simple. dam when we played rtcw enemy territory and had germans figthing americans (i'm a brit soldier by the way) did we all think dam this must be bad i'm killing american soldiers. nope we all thought killed the bas**rd wooohooo we win.

Same for all games today. we play to win the GAME and if that means i'm on the taliban side so be it. I dont think like that and i'm sure most gamers dont either. its a game, its pixels it in no way hurts familys, its a game game game.

lol, not ranting but find it weird that people can get so upset from it.

 

+rep and /thread, I couldn't agree more...

 

[/QUOTE]
Thanks, no problem.

Yes, and no. Yes, we are more liberal, we are free (from the legal point of view) compared to other societies. We are technologically advanced and such. Still, we commit as many atrocities as others do, imho. I personally believe that going there and killing many many (1800 civils killed only in 2008) innocent people is as bad as lapidating (if this is the right word) someone for adultery. Yes, our morality seems to be stronger, more moral, than theirs. But, first, I believe we have no true right to claim: "we are right, you are wrong"; secondly, their way of living was formed by decades of war and massacre. You have to remember that they are in war since 1973. Old people, there, knew only a little period of peace. This war, which I repeat goes on since 1973, was financed by us. We paid the Talebans to fight the URSS, we gave them weapons and support. We did, it's a fact. We gave weapons to whom we now fight, funny eh? (just like in Iraq!)
We caused their actual situation, and going there with the army is NOT a solution. With violence you only force people to fight. Afghan people fought for almost 40 years, will they stop now? They do not want, righteously, to be tought how to live, especially from who helped the cruel (I of course agree they are horrifically amoral, like you say) Talibans take power in their country.
They are bad, but we are not that better. We officially kill civils: don't tell me it is inevitable in war. In our times, war is not necessary anymore, and we all know it. Economical and political power is always enough to prevent any kind of violence: what is missing are the agreements to do so.

I believe you are wrong judjung societes only by what we pretend we believe. Come on, how many of us REALLY believe to the ideals of peace, freedom and justice? Here in Italy, at least, many people will claim that, but not many will really apply the ideals they say they have. Everything is about "looking" and nothing about "being" in our society: it is cool to show we care about, but most of us really don't. That's why judjung our society by singles is as bad as judjing it by groups and actions. Actions (especially in a democratic society) are a projection of what people really think, not of what they show.
That's why our society is so corrupted and, under the hood, immoral. That's why in Italy we still have Berlusconi.
Imho, the atrocities are not committed by a few random wayward members of our society: this kind of behavior is caused by how most people act. Often, those who say: "Wow, that's horrible!" would do the same exact thing under the same conditions. Our ideals are too weak and superficial in most of us.

/RANT

 

I swear this thread was about some MP who decided to cross the line? Not about justifying things in Afghanistan...

*humms* We didn't start the flame war...

 

I'm going to shock everyone here and discuss what the thread is about, ie. MoH. I believe this issue has been created by EA to hype up the game.

If your EA, you used to be king of the hill and the top publisher, raking in bazillions. ActivBlizz have come along and pissed all over you, and your Medal of Honour franchise has stagnated badly. A guaranteed way of getting some interest in the new title at the critical Christmas period is to get some free publicity and stoke some controversey. A precedent has already been set by MW2 and GTA4, which generated plenty of tabloid/MP raving and thus reaped a huge bounty as a reward.

 

Let's not get too comfortable in our self-righteousness. Apart from the fact that we created the Taliban:

...and we fully supported them in the 90's:

and even visited Texas as esteemed delegates to discuss gas pipelines), most of the Middle Eastern countries that we call our friends and allies treat their people just as badly. Apparently they are only evil when they are being evil to us.

From another thread:

 

This may have been pretty well derailed but if anyone's interested here's a remarkably reasonable article on the situation from the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/7962037/Medal-Of-Honor-controversy-analysis.html

 

I know our government were like LOL LUV U TALIBAN for years, but I was thinking more of our actual societies than our leaders. Violence and brutality aren't familiar or acceptable to us as a people. I know both sides' leaders show extraordinary detachedness and immorality, but the ordinary folk differ massively between the Taliban and the British forces, from what I've heard.

 

You are only speaking about the military, or also the civils? Remember it's us who caused (or at least we are an important factor) them to be so aggressive, as reported in Nexxo's excellent post.

 

He should be more concerned with real life warfare than a bunch of pixels.

It's funny how the world changes, not so long ago we were allies with the Taliban and we were pals with Saddam.

 

I lol'ed irl.

 

Again, don't be too sure. Raoul Moates' Facebook tribute page should give you a sense of us ordinary people. And two women a week get killed by their partner (that seemed a high number to me too, so I paid attention to the news. It checks out).

There is an interesting article here about how brutalised soldiers become brutal. Ordinary men and women are sent by our immoral politicians to do monstrous things and (surprise, surprise) become monsters themselves. And this raises an interesting point: why do we think that the Taliban are inherently monsters, rather than brutalised ordinary folk turned into monsters like our soldiers?

Let me remind you: Afghanistan has seen decades of brutal civil war. First it was the Russians brutalising the Afghans. Then it was us hothousing those brutalised people to create monsters to fight back. Osama Bin Laden was once interviewed about his battlefield experienced against the Russian invasion. A grenade once impacted at his feet but failed to explode. "My God, how did that make you feel?" the journalist asked. Osama shrugged. "I felt nothing", he said.

We have met the enemy, and he is us. The Taliban are just what we would become if we suffered a similar history, their soldiers just the monsters that ours are becoming. They just have a head start.

 

Could not be said in a more appropriate manner.

 

You said that ALL flights were escorted for a small portion of their journey, so what you stated is incorrect. When someone corrects you, you pretend thats what you meant.

Did i state i thought that it was the Taliban who bombed london? Nope i didnt. I knew it was Al Quida who did it, not the taliban, but its a fact that the Taliban are hiding Al Quida operatives.

Quite frankly, i find it wierd that it is home grown islamic extremists from the UK who did it. I mean, the UK took them in with open arms, provided them with a home, all of them were treted well, but they were corrupted into bombing the capital of their home.

Youre an idiot, i stated that the Taliban ARE using drugs to fund their operations. Lets say im wrong, where are they going to get their funds?

OF COURSE ive heard of the silk road. My family originated from china, the start of the silk road. Are you saying that trader STILL risk their goods while going through Afghanistan? Where they could be killed by extremists and have their goods taken?

Quite frankly, calling people a retard while leaving your arguments open is just stupid.

You said that you thought we were educated, but maybe YOU need to learn some more argumental skills before you get beaten by someone who is still in secondary school

 

Well to make him happy the game should be only the British standing off against the Americans in an epic friendly fire battle.

 

Thank you!

 

That's very true to be fair mate

 

This does entertain me muchly. A team develops a game called 'Medal of Honor', it's an overnight success. EA pisses off this team so much they jump ship, and create a new studio.

New studio signs up with Activision, releases multiple overnight success games. Activision overtakes EA as biggest publisher. Activision piss off devs, so they jump ship and create a new studio.

New studio signs up with...?

I'm not saying Infinity Ward single-handedly caused these events, but they certainly played a large role. Oh greedy publishers.

 

I don't demonize the Taliban soldiers as people, en masse; as I said, I'm sure some are pretty ordinary. But the particular nature of the things they do, the brutality and inhumaneness of their methods of justice, makes me wonder. I don't buy the argument that people are simply a product of their environments; I really don't think a bunch of brutalized, betrayed, warred-against British soldiers would start chopping off hands. (Of course, this is wild conjecture at this point, but that's how my intuition points.)

This is a criticism of their values and their traditions, rather than their actual members. Any given person raised in a particular group will tend to behave as that group does; a lot of the individual Taliban soldiers' actions aren't morally culpable for that reason, they're just doing what they know and believe in. So I'm criticizing the culture, not the individuals; I think their culture, their society, is less moral than ours. Their society's idea of justice is disgusting and barbaric; ours is sissified and imperfect, but it doesn't trample human rights half as much.