Gaming The PC Gaming Alliance Interview

I agree, hardware needs to be sold on to help boost funds to upgrade. I stand by your iPad example. Hardware costs can be prohibitively expensive.

I disagree we need to be able to do the same with software. That is a very old idealism. Digital delivery does away with piracy and second hand sales, and that is a good thing. I disagree with people who say that buying second hand keeps the money rolling in for new sales. Yeah, the occasional new sale maybe. But the majority of the money goes in the back pocket of the retailer. If people would just wait for a sale and a price that is attractive to them, then the publishers and developers get paid, not just the retailers.

Another thing to ponder is that console hardware sales are subsidised by software sales. What about the hundreds of thousands (millions? I have no idea what official figures are) of people who buy the hardware and then only buy extremely cheap pirated games, or even just download the games themselves? I think that needs to stop.

 

Lets not confuse the issue by talking about two different problems. Piracy is bad and needs to stop, but it isn't what we're concerned with atm.

As for second-hand sales, my point is that they help to reduce the effective cost of ownership to those enthusiasts who actually buy the game at release for the full asking price, thus allowing them to continue purchasing more games.

How many people do you think would be prepared to pay £40-60 on a new game if they knew that the instant they take it out of the box they're stuck with it whether they like it or not?

Without the ability to sell unwanted/completed games on publishers would have to slash their prices by as much as 75% to make them attractive to anyone other than the most dedicated and wealthy gamers - especially when you consider the already high price of entry for decent pc gaming.

But once again, please read the thread I linked to, as all these points and more have been made there.

 

You can't rule out piracy from the conversation because you don't want to include it - I already did include it, and my point is that selling digitally helps battle piracy as well as second hand sales. An added bonus. It ends second hand sales and helps to battle piracy and helps stop retailers squeezing every drop of blood from boxed games.

When we're talking about second hand sales, we're not thinking that Joe buys 1 game retail, sells it on and gets back 75% of his cash to spend on his next RRP game are we? God no! It's never that simple. Dave buys Joe's game at a reduced price. Dave sells game back to shop. Dawn buys the same game from shop, plays it, sells it back. Kev, Mary, Bob, Chip, Chippy, and Chipper all do the same. So ... how many sales has the retailer made and how much profit? How many sales has the publisher made? Of course, there is no limit to how many times that 1 game is bought and sold within an inch of its life. And all the while the only person who injected any money in to the industry, was Joe. Anyway, Joe takes his 75% return and adds the other 25% needed to buy his next RRP game, then sells it back to shop. Dave picks it up cheaper and so on and so on.

As for the thread you recommend - I've just scrolled through the 7 pages of the thread and I get it that you feel very passionately about keeping second hand sales from the size of your replies.

I don't feel the same. Sorry! No matter if I read the 7 pages or not, you can't convince me.

Demos
Timed trials
Reduced content
Free-to-play with micro transactions
Ad-supported

There are more examples, the industry is constantly coming up with ways to make digital work and bring prices in line with what people are willing to pay, and it will eventually be this way. Better get used to it!

I'm not sure where you get your figures or if they are correct, but yeah, I'll go along with the fact that publishers may reduce their prices - whether that be at release day or further down the line. We all have a sweetspot - be patient and they will give you your game at that price you want in a sale. Don't forget if the second hand market ceases to exist, that moneypot stays, it just takes the right price for people to buy their game.

I can't be convinced, I doubt you can either. We both win.

 

Wait, are people in the UK allowed to trade in used PC games at the store?

Just because you're out of pocket a bit of money doesn't mean you've done the right thing. And it's pretty hard for the average consumer to copy an iPad.

What's to prevent you buying the game, copying it, and then selling it back?

You also seem to misunderstand what you're actually buying when you buy a game. You're not paying for the CDs or manual or box - those are packaging - you're paying for a licence to use that software.

Please explain how getting a game off the torrents and a secondhand sale is different in terms of revenue for the creator of the game. You seem to forget that after EB or whoever gets the game, they'll sell it right on to someone else - that's the sale the creator/owner of the IP is missing out on. The guy buying it used gets the full functionality of the game, and the dev gets screwed.

I agree, second hand sales would be better for consumers. But if you allow those, you ought to allow piracy. The creator of the game gets no money for a second hand sale...the exact same amount of money they get from someone torrenting it. You're saying it's ok that Bob sells back a game that will be resold god-knows-how-many times to other gamers without reimbursing the creators/IP owner, because that means he'll be more likely and able to buy another game, a brand new game, not used, and it's also ok for Bob to buy second hand games because maybe, just maybe, he'll use the money saved to buy a brand new game. Or maybe he'll just buy two used ones, and screw the devs.

What's worse is that someone else is making money off the creator's work.

If you're so worried about reducing risk to the consumer, shouldn't you be advocating piracy? That means there's zero risk to the consumer!

There's the solution to all our problems.

They should slash prices by 75%. They'll sell more. That's your original problem (and a valid one, too) - how do I know if if this game's worth fifty pounds (or a hundred dollars in AU?) It works, Steam's proved it:

http://www.steamfriends.com/news/3911/steam-holiday-sales-are-success-valve-comics-way

75% decrease in price...1470% increase sales.

Mike Capps can kiss my arse. He was whinging a while back about how "PC piracy" killed People Can Fly as an independent studio. No it didn't, Mikey. Your giant middleware factory swallowed them up because you liked their style, and wanted to have some of that for yourself. Of course, the first thing Mikey did was use their talents to...port GOW to the PC, which I imagine is the game development equivalent of making someone lick your shoes. Of course, then Mikey got all hurt 'cause no one PC wanted to play a game that was 12 months old yet cost the same as a new game, and had GFWL tacked onto it to boot.

All in all, the PCGA alliance sounds like a shill, like they're there to just keep an eye on PC gaming and make sure it doesn't cause too much of a fuss, and be receptive to any console overflow they might want to slide to the PC.

 

Another little update on the PCGA from Gamasutra.

Short version - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33088/PC_Gaming_Alliance_Head_To_Make_Group_More_Vociferous.php?

Full interview - http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6290/a_renewed_focus_pcgas_new_.php

 

Update, sounds bad to me ...

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...microsoft-and-nvidia-leave-pc-gaming-alliance

Why would Nvidia ditch the PCGA? Microsoft, I can understand, in their ideal world every game would be Xbox exclusives ... but Nvidia?!?!

Added: I fear that the gaming industry as a whole is focusing too much on making massive profits (understandable. Activision being public enemy number 1) instead of giving us massively advanced hardware (which I'd prefer). After all, PC hardware advances drive console hardware advances much faster.

 

I would much prefer it if the gaming industry focussed on giving us good games and the hardware industry focussed on giving us decent hardware that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.