Gaming Fat, Ugly or Slutty?

it's really the competitive multiplayer games.. the competitive crowd has always been racist (I remember the slurs way back- no need to try and sugar coat it, and that was strait bucktooths) but don't really remember the sexist part until the console crowd started in.. think geeks actually enjoy female company- the console crowd maybe a lot more 'black cherry' and elephantitus

guess it's more than likely downward spiral from here out.. the best way to treat these guys is like you would a little kid.. I know it's different for girls, they take these things to heart sometimes.. but really it's probably some kid who looks like a shrimp on the barbie or maybe a fat hairy monkey

hey nexxo you should try assassins creed brotherhood in single player.. you'd see why gaming can still be fun =] it's one of those games that's not hardcore, but it's done so well.. day/night cycles- sun moves across the sky and you can do just about anything.. there's even a little love story in there even though the ending kind of blows up in your face (I don't like things blowing up in my face)

crysis 2, dead space 2.. actually almost anything with 2 in it has gone to the birds.. I've got witcher 2 and joe raves about it in the review- I have a feeling it's another 2..

I'm in gaming retirement myself but it would have been a shame if I never played some of these titles..

 

actually this whole thread reminds me of this..

 

I had so much to say about it it amounted to way too much so didn't post it, but in short yes there are some very poor excuses for humans in multiplayer land that aren't gamers & are just trolls who believe they can troll as nasty as they can & get away with it, I avoid multiplayer so I don't get mad about not being able to throw them into a wall when I witness such behaviour, not talking about people who are a little rude with humor intent, I mean ones I've witnessed being off the charts out of order.

A solution for new gamers or any gamers without a nice collection of gamer buddys is to form a group thread in a good forum & get gamers in a similar position to join & add them to your friends list in whatever the gaming platform & whenever 1 or a few slip through who are gobshites ban them & remove them from your friends list, sorted & back to fun social gaming with no pests .

I've been thinking of never getting back on multiplayer but yeah I'd like to game with others still, it's a whole extra level of fun & can breath much needed life into a game but if it wasn't getting anoyed with nasty trolls it was multiplayer cheats so just had enough of it & the only way to have good gaming sessions without any BS is if you have a trusted friends list, this could work on consoles also (but not sure if you can opt to only play with people on your friends list on consoles).

Should start a sticky thread in the gaming area of the forum for something like this there are many people who either chose to dump their friends because they weren't good friends or just get left out so this could be good for them.

 

I've met loads and loads of females while gaming online and they seem to manage just fine. Also, just for the record, they kick ass just as hard as any guys.

That said, I do agree some males are f*****g arseholes to the ladies. I've seen terrible abuse via PM messages of friends. I've also played a female character in MMO's as I play all sides and factions to get every aspect.....and my god!.......Do up a nice fem-char with a short skirt and boobs and you get hit on by every teenager there is! Pretty funny to explain you are bloke, they back off so fast, it's quite a trick. Makes up for the all the "hi baby, need a hand?" comments.

 

Yeah true they can indeed dish it back very well & it's always nice to see but still it can't be good for a persons mind taking any of that theres just no need for being out of order in a thing that's supposed to be fun wrether it be in a game world chat room or reality, I'm about the same in reality as I am online except I'm much more shy in reality a couple of beers brings me out a bit .

Yeah I think it's this type that makes me a tad furious.

Class

 

I'm more shy in reality too, generally.

But, and it's kind of a big but really. I never say anything online I wouldn't say in person. It's a rule I have. Call it online-honour if you want.

I ain't no keyboard warrior. What I say is what I say. I hate those types who chat shite or act like they big just because they online. Say what you would say face to face, or get the f**k off my internets! That's my way of the net-ninja (a cookie to all the anime fans who spot the reference).

 

Here's a helpful distinction: you can unplug from 'Virtual Life'. You cannot unplug from 'Real Life'.

This is why Spec says that how people behave is of no consequence unless it affects your real life. Because you cannot avoid or escape real life; actions are real and have real, inescapable consequences. But as Pat Cadigan says: "Here [in virtual reality] there can only be lies". You can turn it off, change channel, log out. It isn't real. Unless you met them in real life, neither are the people you met on-line, or their relationship with them (like you don't really know me and I don't really know you).

Let me explain further. Nobody can make you do or feel anything. You decide what you do or how you feel in response to what other people say or do. The only way someone can make you feel anything is by inflicting physical pain --a real-life thing. The only way someone can make you do anything is by physically overpowering you --again a real-life thing. But words have a virtual quality about them in as far as their impact depends on how you choose to interpret them. Even many actions are not 'real' if their consequences have no physical impact.

So calling someone a ******? Whatever. Burning a cross in their garden however is not cool. Hating Jews? It's a free country. Persecution and concentration camps? Big no-no.

If you can't keep your real life separate from your virtual life, you have as big a problem as the people we're talking about.

 

Nexxo, 'virtual life' is now 'real life'.

Communicating and interacting with people via mediums such as the internet, smart phones, social networking and on line games are becoming an ubiquitous part of our day to day existence.

You can not just say it is okay to abuse people because they can "unplug". What should they do, go back to weaving flax and the barter system; in order to avoid bullying and harassment on-line?

My kid is going to be old enough to play on line games one day - I would like to hope that he will not be learning it is acceptable and tolerated to offer people racist, sexist and hateful abuse.

By your example every type of behaviour is okay, up until the point you start physically attacking them or burning crosses on their lawn...

God help us all mate, lets hope sanity wins one day.

 

Nexxo, I'm disappointed in you. As I said in my post, the only 'virtual' part of gaming online is the actual game itself. The communication between the persons playing the game is exactly the same as if we were texting on a mobile, speaking on a phone, or even sat opposite each other at a table. That communication is not virtual as it is taking place between two real people.

If I p*ss someone off in a game by being rude and discourteous, I cannot 'unplug' them or their feelings. I can turn my PC off, but they will still be hurt by my nasty comments. That is REAL.

By extension of your argument, I could abuse, for any baseless reason I desire, anyone on this forum, including your good self, and be justified? The only real difference between the two examples, is one is communication whilst playing a game, the other is communication on a forum. Both on a computer, both virtual mediums, but both containing real participants and real communication.

And anyone who says words have a 'virtual quality' and cannot in themselves inflict pain unless you let them is only partially right, and obviously is lucky enough not to have been put in a position where the right combination of words are spoken to hit the right spot to cause pain. Everyone has a weakness, my friend, perhaps someone has yet to find yours, but can you honestly say that in your entire life no one has ever said anything to you that by words alone did not generate feelings of anger, hate, despair, or sorrow in you? You do not need to know someone to hurt them.

'Hating Jews? It's a free country?' No. This is a perversion of the notion of free speech and the right to express yourself. I think the little caveat on the end that says 'Free speech and idea, as long as this does not cause unreasonable harm or distress to others' is all to often left out by those who wish to use the 'Free Speech' idea as a shield for their inadequacies and their vile outpourings against others.

I do not have a virtual life. I do not have a real life. I have a LIFE. This life has many avenues and facets. The GAME is not real. This of course I recognise - to suggest I do not would imply you are painfully ignorant of the very forum members you are here to moderate. I'm sure this is not the case. But the process of me interacting with other human beings playing the same game is always real. It is this exact flawed notion that all aspects of playing computer games as being 'virtual' that gives rise to these fools believing they have the right and the power to express their small-minded little views to people who neither desire nor who should be expected to put up with them. If you do not already I hope that one day you come to realise this for yourself.

 

Yes, but it's a spectrum and not a black and white distinction. By the same token, if you get a stalker calling you up repeatedly you can just cancel your phone line. Similarly, if you get shouted at in the street you can choose to stay at home more. It you get bullied at home, you might be able to 'unplug' from the conflict by modifying your behaviour -- for example by concealing your sexuality if that is an issue. If you get bullied in the workplace, you can 'unplug' by changing job.

Just because gaming online is a leisure activity rather than a life essential, like buying milk down the shop, doesn't necessarily mean that you can't have a legitimate expectation of tolerance and decency (presuming that that is the norm for your culture as it is in most western countries). I don't see why an online leisure activity needs to be treated as a special case.

 

Using a microphone or typing it at a keyboard doesn't make bad behaviour more acceptable. It's a ridiculous idea that it does.

 

For someone who is usually so logical, this is a saddenly inaccurate statement. By that logic, why does grief exist when surely people can choose how they feel? Or anger, or jealousy, or love or anything that makes us human? The point of feelings is that we can't change them, we can only choose how we act given we have the feelings we do.

I think you've seen Equilibrium too many times!

I'm afraid you're agrument is wrong for two reasons that instantly spring to mind:

1) As pointed out many times above me, if someone is abusive to you in a game and that makes you feel bad, you can't just turn that off. You could just not play the game anymore, but by that logic if I get yelled abuse at by my neighbours, should I just not leave my house anymore? If you want to do something you love, that millions of other people do, but you can't because whenever you do you're made to feel like ****, how is this something that doesn't deserve sympathy?

2) If FUoS is an accurate representation of the abuse female gamers get, then a good proportion of it happens outside of games, through emails or instant messages. Where does your so called "virtual life" stop and "real life" begin? Is an email still "virtual life"? What about a phone call?

If you are able to shrug abuse off and not let it bother you, then well done for supressing your feelings, but don't presume everyone else can, and if they can't it's because they're somehow weaker than they should be.

 

All good points there. But (and you knew there would be a 'but') I must somewhat disagree.

First, let's not get to hung up on digital media. I was born before the Internet (not just before the Web, but befire the first "@" was transmitted over the bare-bones DARPAnet). I have lived more of my life without the existence of mobile phones than with. I did not plug into the Web until 1996. Trust me, you can unplug, and you know it. We all have hotmail or googlemail accounts we can ditch at a moment's notice. We all present through avatars we can swap and change at will. And as an aside, greypilgers, no, I don't know the forum members here. And you don't really know me. 'Tis all virtual, see? Nexxo is just one facet of the person I am in real life. Similarly, greypilgers is only one tiny facet of the whole complex, multifaceted person that is you. Who I don't know.

You can't unplug from real life (jhng). Sex discrimination at work is a real problem because you cannot just change sex, or just change your job. Being harassed in the street is a real problem because you cannot stay indoors all your life. Your neighbours yelling at you is a real problem because you cannot just move.

The problem is: how do you deal with that? I'd like people to stop discriminating me, for instance, for being coloured, foreign or (as has happened once or twice) male. But they won't, so I have to either challenge it or decide to feel indifferent about it. Come to think of it, there's a lot of crap we have to confront, and equally often, just put up with, because real life is Unfair Like That. Therefore what you can't expect is that life, real or virtual, will respect you and your rights. That doesn't mean it shouldn't; that means it won't. you have to be prepared to assert your rights or let it go.

This goes for virtual reality also. We cannot expect people to play nice (or we can, but it would be kind of stupid and in total contradiction of the facts of life). We cannot expect virtual reality to be policed while at the same time we expect the net to be free etc. We cannot have pr0n on the net and the Bit-Tech Babe Thread while at the same time we have ISPs or MMORPG providers police the Internet for sexist behaviour. I mean, get real.

We CAN challenge people when they don't play nice. We can ridicule them (which has the added bonus of being highly entertaining), ostracise them and expose them for the asshats they are. That is what FUoS is about. Don't feel upset, feel contempt. Don't get mad --get even.

Bauul mentions grief. Unfortunate, because that's a rather complex issue. But yes: people choose to feel grief, because they need to feel grief. It is a crap feeling, but it is also a hugely important feeling to experience and work through. Put it this way: suppose someone close to you dies. You are bereft and naturally, very upset. You don't taste your food anymore. Autumn leaves fall upon your heavy chest. Your feet want to turn to the grave of your loved one, and you want to lie down heavily and never get up. You cry all the time.

Then a doctor says: "Well, as luck would have it, we have this new psychotropic medication that will change your brain chemistry and you won't feel grief anymore. You'll still be aware that your loved one died, but it will be just like recalling a casual fact, and you won't have any particular feelings about it anymore at all". Would you take the tablet?

Well, then.

 

it's called booze

 

See? People choose how they feel. Sometimes they use tools for that.

 

Nexxo, you are clearly a small-minded pr*ck with an over-inflated opinion of yourself and likely an equally underinflated p*nis. Clearly since you bragg about being born before the internet (wow, what an achievement - it's not like that's ever happened to anyone else) you believe you are not an outdated old git who will probably die soon and so will stop being a drain upon the all the other normal people out there who no longer wish to have their air stolen by a useless, pathetic turd who most likely spends most nights sat up in his mother's attic looking at pictures of naked ladies and jerking off into used Kleenex...

Now - following on from your arguments, I expect you to simply 'umplug' from the forum, and I expect you not to try and pursue some kind of retribution or justice for my hateful and unwarranted diatribe. After all - this is virtual - to me you are not real, you are simply a group of characters on my screen, and if I want to insult you and breach common decency, who are you to expect me to behave in a civilised way? Yup, the world is harsh, but imagine how much harsher it would be if some people didn't stand up and say 'no'.




N.B. And just in case anyone gets hoppity - my first paragraph is there solely to illustrate the argument. Although it would indeed be very ironic if I suffered retribution for it...

 

excellent article and great discussion, with many salient viewpoints. sorry i'm late to the party on this one.

it's heartening to see this subject matter addressed here on bit-tech and i'm glad to see a thread where i can more readily identify other female members. it's also great to hear from guys supportive of non-hostile gaming environments for women.

in view of the fact that we do choose our emotional responses to things (however difficult that may be and it can be enormously difficult, and even though those responses may be so conditioned that they no longer feel voluntary), i too am of the mind that which feelings we choose to focus on when we find ourselves in a discriminatory or hostile situation will determine what actions, if any, we will subsequently make toward change and the degree of emotional energy we'll generate to sustain it.

how can we hope to change minds and hearts without accepting objective reality? so yeah, the reality is that women gamers will, in some environments, encounter what amounts to gender discrimination in virtual reality. it may be subtle, it may be overt, but there we are. so now what?

i would suggest we examine our personal motives. asking ourselves how important it is, is a highly personal question and touches on many of the points raised in these responses. the answer will vary depending on the person, but there is no one right answer except that non-game related threats and violence do not have to be tolerated! online stalking and harrassment are being addressed legally in many states (not sure what is being done in other countries, so please enlighten me). cut off all contact with a threatening person when that threat/hostility is not part of agreed upon game parameters.

short of that, no woman needs to walk away from something she truly enjoys (i.e. enjoys the game more than she dislikes the trash talk), so if you are determined to play because you want to play (or vote, or lead, etc.) then accept the reality you are dealing with and take realistic steps to assert your rights, your pleasurable and safe experience, and your continued status in the venue of your choice. enlist the help of those who support you, and as many have mentioned here, challenge the accepted social behavior whenever and where ever you encounter it. call out the perpetrators. ask your supporters to call out the perpetrators. contact those responsible for establishing and enforcing rules of gameplay and associated conduct, as well as commercial public relations associated with the game. argue your position with logic. laugh in the face of smallness. best of all, kick ass and take names. change depends on unity.

 

Do you realize how unrealistic that is?
Do you just keep running? And hiding? Who are you, a fugitive?

What do you do when someone shows up at your house, which I actually had happen? Do you move or do you finally stop and deal with it? How many times are you willing to give up everything? "I'm sorry kids, pack you're things, we have to move again!"

Jeebus, stand up for yourself.



A few here keep talking about freedom and rights, of the perpetrators, how about your rights?
Tolerating this crap online only emboldens them to do it more in real life.

Great way to solve your troubles.

 

I only ever speak in private chat on XBL now. I got fed up of listening to the racism, bigotry and small children speaking in inappropriate games. Then their parents getting involved and threatening to "Come find you"

 

Join a clan, generally any insults are light hearted and are just for fun