Other General Battlefield 3 discussion thread

I wonder how hit markers came about in the first place... maybe to counter the cries of "lag"? I.E. you can confirm that you're hitting someone.

However i think "suppression spotting" is a little different (and worse) since you're getting points for not hitting someone but close to someone. I.E. once a person's ducked under a rock, you won't get a hit marker, you don't know if he's still there or not no matter how much you shoot it; however with suppression you can clearly tell if they're still there by whether or not they're suppressed.

Whilst i agree that campy-recon teams are deathly boring, i also agree with DICE that they shouldn't change it simply because it's spammed. It's a testament to DICE as to how "fun"/challenging the sniping is by how many people actually go Recon.

Besides, Battlefield is a game that IMO simply requires Snipers to function properly. I generally snipe out mounted gunners that are mowing down friendly infantry, AT emplacements that are preventing vehicles from moving up etc. Sure an Assault rifleman/battle rifle could do the job, however at both a closer distance and with less efficiency.

Although all that being said, whilst my preferred class is Recon, i haven't actually used it for a long time, instead opting for either levelling my Engineer or being the Medic of the team/squad. And the reason simply being as you said, there are either too many snipers most of the time.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally cannot enjoy shooters that don't offer a significant amount of feedback for my shots fired. Whether that feedback comes from unrealistically-large spatters of blood, wounds on bodies, Quake3-style 'beeps' or HUD hit markers.
Shooters without some kind of feedback for shots-on-target may be much more realistic, but they're also a lot less satisfying as a player, at least for me.

Sure, hit-markers can be abused; but I don't think I'd bother playing any long-range shooter that didn't provide some kind of indication that I'd actually hit someone; because it just feels too much like spray-and-pray with no gratification.

This probably comes from having grown up playing shooter games as much for the fun of shooting virtual people as for the challenge of the game itself; which sounds disturbing, but that's how it is for me.
I don't think I'd still be playing BFBC2 if it didn't have any hit indication.

 

It's better than it could have been. 2142, imo, had the best balance of the existing class systems though having more than four classes would still be best. BF2 was great for making sure everything was role specific, but there just isn't a need for eight different roles. BC2 took the four class system and tried to fix some of 2142's problems but the ends don't justify the means, Assault feels like a shadow of its former self and the support role of the former Support class died with it. To make matters worse the new Medic class still sees the same problem that 2142 had: the class with the medkit and defib becomes the dominant anti-infantry class because blobs of them can run in gunning people down and reviving themselves.

My only concerns:
-Assault can quickly become too good in anti-infantry situations. Look at the class choices for a Camp Gibraltar or Cerbere Landing game and you'll quickly see how stagnant it gets.
-DICE need to figure out what they want Recon to be. The Sniper half (from BF2) is long range specialist anti-infantry and stealth, the Recon half is stealth, reconnaissance and specialist anti-vehicle. They have stealth in common but are otherwise complete opposites. Someone sneaking through buildings and engaging primarily close range combat doesn't want a ghillie suit and wants something a little more suited to their task than the VSS or jury-rigged all class weapons. Give the class a proper suppressed SMG or PDW (why did Engineer get suppressed weapons?!) and provide it from the start (*cough* 2142's Lambert requiring multiple unlocks just to play a true Recon) then have unlocks alternate.
-If the classes are moving back to a more 2142 style setup what will Support be getting item wise? LMG, supply kit, and what? Suppression's a cool effect but it makes the class a little limited as all you'd do is give ammo or shoot things.

 

http://bf3blog.com/2011/06/new-battlefield-3-squad-details-emerge/

Looks like spawning system in BF3 will be the same as BF2. Better, easier to wipe put a squad and have better definition of squad member roles.

 

so now being in a squad with 3 camping snipers /etc will suck ever more

how does the squad leader thing works ? say 4 people are randomly assigned in a squad, who's the squad leader ?

 

It did come about in the laggy days of dialup modems where 130 was a low ping. Before the sounds there was a lttle splash of blood on an enemy if you hit or maybe they would flinch slightly, but if you were shooting someone with a railgun you wouldnt see the blood so you had no idea if your shot hit or not. In games like quake singleplayer you would hear enemies make their version of 'ow' in your ear even if they were far away. IIRC and it was a while ago now, competitive mods such as 3wave CTF and Rocket Arena introduced the unrealistic chiming sounds when you hit and then Planetside was the first game I remember seeing a more subtle brown circle to indicate how much you hurt your opponent.

When you are starting out with a new game or a new weapon it just helps alot to know if you are even hitting anything!

 

We ran our CoD4 server for a while with no hit-marker and holy crap did it make it harder in a firefight! Even the P90 left you struggling to hose people down. Made for a far more tactical game

However, on the scale of something like Battlefield, it is nice to know that you're hitting/dropping your target so that you are sure that you hit or dropped your target.

 

Surely a realistic, good feeling hitmarker would just be to see the model move with the impact? You know... like a person would if you shot them.

Oh, and my input on the sniper thing - it's not about changing the classes etc, it's just down to maps. Give infantry enough cover to be able to go about enjoying their game if they're smart and thoughtful, while the long rangers can still take out the aforementioned mounted gunners etc.

 

Don't think that would work. Realistically a person falls down when shot even with body armour on. Might not be so fun if you fell down everytime you got hit. Anything less than that and you might not know if they were moving cos you shot them or for some other reason.

 

Also on a brief note:

Hit markers are especially useful for Recon/Sniping, especially on the PC. I don't know why DICE implemented it this way, however for some reason the Bolt-Action Snipers instantly chamber after every shot which means you're no longer zoomed in. Thus the only confirmation of hitting your target comes from the "X" that appears (and should subsequently followed by "Marksman Headshot" and "You killed XXXXXXX" ).

This isn't an issue on the consoles since you can keep a hold of the left trigger and stay zoomed in. Whilst it's incredibly satisfying on the PC to have it scope out with the "above" (previous paragraph) appearing ~1 sec later to confirm the kill, i have to admit i still remember the amazing shot i took on whilst on my friend's 360. Whereby i sniped a moving Recon and stayed zoomed in, so whilst the "X" and everything appeared etc. I also got to see the lovely little blood splatter from his head and his subsequent crumpling to the ground.

Mmmmmmm satisfying....

Did i say that out loud?

 

keep that left mouse button hold down after your shot

 

^^Wot He said

 

Awesome.

 

That's been in since BF2

 

BF2142 (where i came in) never had the equivalent of bolt-action snipers so i never learnt that trick .

 

As has been said before, something similar to Titan mode on 2142 would be oh so very welcome

 

i don't know what titan mode is but if it replaced Rush i'd be really happy

 

I'd actually prefer it replaced Conquest (I hate Conquest).

Basically Titan Mode is similar to Conquest in that there are points over a map which need capturing. Every so often (3 minutes?) said Captured Points launch a missile at the enemy Titan damaging its shields. When the shields are down the Titan is "Vulnerable" and you can board it with various vehicles to attempt to destroy it from within (by destroying various consoles and ultimately the reactor inside). When this works properly, it creates a lovely balanced game between trying to Assault a Titan from inside and trying to still hold Capture Points (as they now start damaging the Titan Hull). Ultimately (for me) it gave an Objective for capturing the Points, other than to simply make an opponent's tickets go down.

Me and a friend were thinking you could instead supplement the Titan with something like an Aircraft Carrier and launching assaults to take them down. You obviously wouldn't be able to move the Carrier (due to map limitations) but it wouldn't matter with the lack of a Commander. You could then either Heli. over to it or try to steal a Boat/Jetski to board it. The "Shields" would be replaced by automated defenses which would shoot you down if you try to board it without it being vulnerable.

 

so it's similar to UT2K4's Onslaught mode, right ?

 

Sort of, except Onslaught required you to hold specific nodes in order to chain them to make the enemy reactor vulnerable. Also rear nodes were protected if you held a forward node IIRC, so in that sense it's similar to Conquest: Assault Lines.

In Titan Mode it doesn't matter which Silo's you hold, just as long as you do. Also even holding all of the Silo's you need to wait until they take down the enemy Titan's shields (i can't remember how many shots it took).

But i guess the overall premise is rather similar.