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Marketplace sold item problem

Discussion in 'Serious' started by phinix, 3 Nov 2014.

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  1. phinix

    phinix RIP Waynio...

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    Hi guys, I'm not sure if this is right section for this kind of problem, but I guess it could fit any other marketplaces/ebay etc so should be fine posting it here as general issue.

    I recently sold an item to one of our members on our Marketplace section. I am not going to give a name of the buyer, cause I don't want to make it personal here, I just need to discuss the situation.

    Now I have a problem - I sold 100% working item, but buyer says that item is damaged.
    It is motherboard and he says it's acting up with installed hardware, basically is not usable.
    Cost of the item was £52 including delivery, for some people it may not be a huge amount, for me it is a lot if I was going to lose it.
    I don't want to show myself here in better light or anything like that, just want to discuss this situation and show you how do I see it. I would like to see what you guys think it should be done in this particular case, so please suggestions are very much welcome.

    In Marketplace section there is a sticky thread that contains all rules and says that all deals are done on our own risk. I have been selling/buying items here hundreds of times since 2006, dealt with many of you guys and never had any problems, deals always went smooth without any issues. I always sell 100% working items and always expect to receive 100% working when I'm a buyer. Apart of Marketplace I'm also a part of our modding community. I never tried to cheat anyone here on our forum, it is very important for me to keep my reputation untouched, I always could count on our huge forum community that is why I'm asking you guys for your help/advice in this case.

    Most of the time I prefer to deal with people I already know and dealt in the past, feels safer that way. When I buy things I always choose someone well known on forum, who's registered long time and have lots of references/ positive comments on Marketplace. In this particular case I sold an item to person who has <300 posts on the forum and been registered in 2011. It didn't raise any concerns when I was making a deal with this person, now I feel a bit like ":wallbash:" that I dealt with someone who just received privileges to access Marketplace. Maybe I shouldn't have done it. I also sold case fans to this person in a period of a week or so with motherboard sale. Then I noticed that the buyer created a thread in Hardware section asking for help cause he had problems with mounting the fans in the case - for me that was a quick indication that this may be a person who isn't experienced in PC building at all. As far as I was informed by the buyer, he was gathering parts to build a new PC. After couple of days, buyer created an thread on our forum describing a problem he has with building his PC. He couldn't find a fault and was trying different combinations to get his PC up and running. Our forum members suggested him different steps etc I also suggested some standard steps to find the issue when noticed that thread. Wasn't expecting that my motherboard was causing it because I was 100% sure it was fine - I had this motherboard for over a year and been installed in my main PC. It was running till the day when I took it out and sent to the buyer same day. It was definitely working when I was sending it... I do not think that motherboard could be damaged during transit - buyer never mentioned it when he received it and if thee was any issue with the package - I'm guessing he would have done it straight away.

    Now, I'm a bit concerned what was done to this motherboard on buyers side - I'm not judging him or anything like that - I am simply worried about this situation, cause from those few facts I don't know if the motherboard was handled correctly during installation. This is one of the possible scenarios - I'm not saying that this was the case!

    I don't know what to do now - buyer got back to me asking how I want to resolve this situation. I guess he thinks that I sold him a dead mobo. Where I'm convinced that it was working perfectly when was sending it to him. There is no way we can prove which side is right right now. I don't want to end up with dead mobo in my hands that I know I sold in working order and losing £52 and buyer surly doesn't want to end up losing his £52 he paid...

    What do guys think should we do now? Is there a reasonable solution for this situation?
    Please let me know what are your suggestions, what would you do or what should be done in this case.
    I believe in our community, always could count on you guys, so please let's find a solution to this together.

    Cheers
    Mike
     
  2. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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    Are we 100% sure it's the motherboard? If it is, unfortunately there's no way of knowing what's been done either accidentally with or without knowledge. The MP is based on trust, since we're all friendly folk I'd go with damage without knowledge scenario. If it's still under warranty, you could help RMA it. You could split it, £26 each. How would you deal with it had it been someone you'd felt confident selling to?

    I'm not sure if consumer law has anything to say here, might be a rather grey area.

    Of course I've never bought or sold anything on the MP so feel free to dismiss what I've said. I will say that I'm pretty confident I know who you're talking about though, without having to look at any forums or threads so I don't think trying to keep the buyer anonymous will work.

    Good luck to you both.
     
  3. phinix

    phinix RIP Waynio...

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    Thanks for your comment, loftie.

    I should have mentioned this - motherboard is not on warranty anymore, so cannot RMA it. Of course I didn't sell it as being on warranty. In my for sale thread I stated that it was in very good condition and being an used item.
    I packed it up and used courier service to deliver it. If it was damaged during transit, then it had to be very obvious at the delivery (like a hole through the box or something like that).

    Buyer said that after trying different hardware he eliminated other parts and pointed it is motherboard that is faulty.

    I was thinking about splitting the costs - I don't want to lose the full value and I'm sure buyer doesn't want to end up without mobo and losing his money.

    I'll see what other members will say about it.
     
    Last edited: 3 Nov 2014
  4. Comrade Woody

    Comrade Woody Obsolete

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    Only one party is right, so splitting the loss is going to be unfair to one regardless.

    In situations like this someone's going to be left upset and out of pocket, and unfortunately even with the best will in the world there's really little that can be done to avoid that.

    If you know without any doubt that it was fully working when you sent it, and there was no mention of damage from transit, then you have to assume (if the board is indeed faulty) that the damage was done later by the buyer, in which case it isn't your responsibility.
     
  5. Risky

    Risky Modder

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    Would you considering paying for shipping it back to yourself so you can retest?
     
  6. Sp!

    Sp! Minimodder

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    I would say if your 100% it was working, then there's nothing more you can do.

    If you buy something 2nd hand, out of warranty, and from a private seller you take a risk that it won't work as you expected or may die two days later and hopefully with this knowledge you money you spend reflects that risk. With something like a motherboard it's impossible to say if the problem is with the motherboard or one of the other components in the system with out a lot of testing (and a lot of spare known working components.) And having him return it to you just increases the amount spent on postage and serves no real purpose other than to increase the risk of it getting damaged in transit.
     
  7. Risky

    Risky Modder

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    I guess you have to ask what would happen if someone sold you a board that you tested that was DoA? What you you expect from them?
     
  8. Big Elf

    Big Elf Oh no! Not another f----ing elf!

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    Am I right in thinking that the buyer has had problems with resolving problems on other motherboards? Normally and depending on the buyer I'd refund but in this case I would want to test it myself.
     
  9. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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    The problem is, you can't assume the damage was done by the buyer. The damage could have been done by the seller between last test and arrival. There is really no way to know. Sorry phinix if that sounds like I'm blaming you, I'm not, I'm just saying accidents can happen anywhere, by the most or least experienced people out there. And at the same time just because someone is inexperienced it doesn't mean they are at fault. I don't remember having any issues assembling my first PC with no help, but then at the same time someone on our TS wired their PSU to a fan header on the MB and fubar'd it.

    Or they both could have been SOL and it just chose this time to fail.
     
  10. julianmartin

    julianmartin resident cyborg.

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    Can we get a detailed breakdown of what the buyer did to conclude the motherboard was dead?
     
  11. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    I think that a forum member (spazmochad) visited the buyer to assist them - perhaps they can help to clarify what was done or whether there were any visible signs of motherboard damage?

    Whilst I obviously don't know the ins and outs of this particular case, I have to say that the buyer made one particular post (in the "Newbies Guide to Computer Building" thread) that made me concerned that they might have done some damage to the motherboard socket. I could be miles off with this, however, and I'm not trying to blame the buyer for this situation.
     
  12. Margo Baggins

    Margo Baggins I'm good at Soldering Super Moderator

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    It's not something stupid like a bios problem?

    you said you had it with a celeron in there, I assume he's trying to run a 2500k. BIOS problems sometimes do what he has said it's doing. Might need an update?

    I think you need new pics of the cpu socket. Did you take pictures of the socket before you sent the board?

    With LGA sockets, there should be none of the above mentioned things, except, maybe potentially hard to push the lever down, there should be no associated sounds and difficulty in getting the cpu in there in the first instance. But you all know that anyway :)
     
    Last edited: 3 Nov 2014
  13. Comrade Woody

    Comrade Woody Obsolete

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    It's a difficult situation. There's no way to confirm when the damage occurred, as you said, so you have to come to a conclusion and make a decision based on what you do know. If what you know suggests the other party is at fault then giving them the benefit of the doubt is going to be a bitter pill to swallow.

    For the record I'm not saying you should always be uncompromising, it obviously depends on the specific circumstances and you should try to be reasonable and settle things amicably. If, for example, I sold something that failed shortly afterwards (as Sp! mentioned) then personally I'd be inclined to refund it in good faith, but I'd feel differently if I had reason to suspect accidental damage. I think that's the issue in this case.
     
  14. phinix

    phinix RIP Waynio...

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    Guys, thank you for all your comments.
    I guess everyone can now find a thread about it, based on my for sale thread anyway.

    Here's a buyer's thread about problems he had. This will how you what has been done on his side.
    Also another thread here.

    I do not have additional parts that I could use to test it if he sends me this mobo. There was other forum member at his place to test it, so don't see the point of re-testing it again. Buyer did a lot of testing already.

    As it was said here many times - there is no way now to confirm when and where the damage has been done. On the evening I was going to pack it up I turned my PC off, pulled it out, put in antistatic bag that comes with mobo, put in the original box, slapped a bubble wrap on it and packed it up for courier and took it to the courier pick up place. After couple of days buyer received it and I assume it was fine, cause he didn't write to me about any delivery issues. I only found out about the problem finding his thread in Hardware section after couple of days of testing already been done on it.

    I'll ask him to join this thread, so we could find solution together.
     
    Last edited: 3 Nov 2014
  15. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Margo, this is what I was alluding to. It makes me think that the socket may well have been damaged when the CPU was inserted (or alternatively, that it was damaged in transit or before being sent out, of course - although Phinix states that the board was working fine prior to dispatch).

    As I said earlier, perhaps spazmochad might be able to confirm whether he checked the socket for damage or bent pins when he was round at the buyer's house?
     
  16. phinix

    phinix RIP Waynio...

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    I do not have a photos of the socket. I guess I will do it from now on...

    That's the thing - I can give my hand to be cut off - I know mobo was working when I packed it up. I literally pull it out of my main PC. No pins were damaged, I took care of it, carefully put back that plastic cover for cpu socket to make sure nothing will hit that bit during transit.
     
  17. Margo Baggins

    Margo Baggins I'm good at Soldering Super Moderator

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    If the buyer could provide pics of the board, cpu socket, etc. then that would be a good start I would of thought.

    In future take pics of your socket prior to sending :) There has been a few instances over the last few years where people haven't, and it's caused controversy. It's always safest to get a picture of the cpu socket, and get it up and listed with your item.
     
  18. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Its a second hand marketplace in reality which means theres very little rules on both sides. Its all based on trust.

    Id get him to try a bios update personally if he can as going from a celeron to a 2500k is a big jump. Depending on if the board ever supported the 2500k out of the box.
     
  19. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    I'm with Margo, high-res shots of the front and back of the 'board as well as a closeup of the pins on the socket. That way we can see if there are any damaged traces, bent pins or missing caps.

    Crowd-analysis is the way forward.
     
  20. Kronos

    Kronos Multimodder

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    Perhaps post it to another member for testing, someone with a spare 2500k maybe though of course that will incur extra costs in delivery charges. As has been mentioned spazmochad has tested the board and knowing what he did would be useful.

    But there is not an easy solution and we all have our own views on how we would handle it. As someone has said buying second hand is risky but a risk we take for that bargain.

    So first things first find out what spazmochad did with the mobo.
     
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