I never said I based my views on a 1950's political thriller. You said my views reminded you of one, I'm waiting for you to let me know what 1950's political thriller that would be. I'm interested.
Sorry maybe I'm being stupid but when you use words like "has always" doesn't that mean they always do something, rather than the past tense of "used to" Maybe it's a break down in the language being used by you seem to be insinuating that those stereotypical views of how the political spectrum used to be still exist today. EDIT: I know you didn't say that, like I said... And if you re-read what i quoted in the above post you would see why I accused you of ripping something out of a 1950's political thriller, because the words you used seem to indicate that you believe those stereotypical views of days gone by are still valid in today's words.
Yup, because the National Socialists totally didn't do propaganda at all. and that Lefty Stalin totally didn't do brute force and physical control. Oh, wait. Actually both sides applied both approaches equally and with gusto. I guess there is no difference between Left and Right after all.
In context of centralization of power and decision making and surveillance, then no...no major differences.
I don't see it as meaningless if it gets people to think, that's the whole point with the exercise and you have to start somewhere. The left and the right paradigm is what most people view as different, but in these key areas they are very much the same. Those who truly are to the right want as little government as possible, as little government interference as possible, as little government influence as possible. I don't see either party working towards limiting government, towards decentralization, less surveillance etc, That's not to say it was always so.
Wait, so there is a Left that is Left, a Right that is also Left, and a true Right? Er, are we talking Conservatives or Libertarians here? So the way to get people to think is to use misleading terminology?
I haven't used misleading terminology have I? If they are making decisions that goes against limiting government, limiting government interference etc, then they are to the left. Not to the right.
Yes, I'm afraid you have. Left is Left, Right is also Left, but not the true Right... which is either (true?) Conservative or Libertarian. Or both. Oh yeah, and then there's those intellectuals. Whatever that means. Sorry, but Corky42 is right: you do sound like some 1950's spy thriller. And when Corky42 and I agree on something, it's time to sit up and take notice.
Left is left and right is left presenting itself as right to give the impression of being in opposition. Yet both work towards centralization of power and decision making, and surveillance. Hey now, either cease and desist or I'll take out a contract on your cat and when you come home he'll be missing. I know a few cats in the neighborhood and when they are hired there is no going back. Preparations have begun in good faith and all that stuff, there's' no stopping them.
Jumeira_Johnny, sorry but that part about rights and the constitution sounds a little wrong. Yes you are allowed to have freedom of speech, but you can not go around calling people ni***r and how you hate them without having problems related to hate speech. Also when that Maning guy blew the whistle and used his freedom of speech it got him a bit of jail time. You will also have lots of problems if by chance you land in the bible belt and say you are an atheist, also what is the deal with the "in god we trust" on the money and the swear on the bible to God when you are in court? You can not make a peaceful demonstration without the police coming over to arrest someone. You can go around with an AR-15 in open carry states as long as you are not black or look at a cop in a funny way. The 4th, 5th and the 6th got shoved into the trash with that homeland security crap, or if you are black. The 8th, as far as i know does not work. You can get fined to a point where you are fired from your job and have to live in poverty for not paying for a speeding ticket. Also don't get me into the cruel and unusual punishment, lets taze and mace that ni**er just for having a stroke in his car. The 9th... yeah... the guys that made this document were really lazy: -I cant remember any other freedoms we can put on this document. -Just put all of them and then let the courts do all the work! - BRILLIANT!! That and no one reads this one and then make laws preventing you from using drugs, and marrying people of the same sex. 18th was fun... and then you repeal it with the 21st. What have you learned? Yeah, lets make a war on drugs and see how that works. It is a really cute document that is mostly called on when you want to say how free you are and then put in the trash when your safety is at stake, when it goes against someone's religious views or when some gov agency wants to wiretap you when they thing you are, maybe, a terrorist.
Yeah, real mature of you. edit: let me put this in other words: You have completely and totally convinced me that citizens of the USA have as much freedoms as any other citizen of the EU.
As I said in my first post, most of you aren't inclined to even want to change your minds. So, given that I have spent a good many hours reading well researched books on this country's history, the thoughts and intents of the writers of the constitution; as well as it's place in history and effects......why should I bother trying to convince you of anything? You've never lived here, or spent the time to try an understand this place. In fact, based on a few years of the ever tiresome view points here, none of you want to change your minds. Every rational attempt is just shouted down. So why, I keep wondering, do you even spend so much time telling us we are so wrong? Why do we fascinate you so much? this was a nice little thread going without a single person from the US chiming in. Right up until someone made disparaging comments about our ownership of fire arms, because you couldn't not mention us. That is what I find fascinating. I get it, I grew up in the EU and my relatives are all as stubborn about it as the people here. If you all would just do two things: a)admit you don't like us and so you'll never even try to change your minds and b)just accept that your views are irrelevant to our country. So please, tell us more about your deep and important insights into our constitution which you have studied so long and have so much experience with.
I posted a question because i want to learn and want my views to be better, i consider my brain as a big pot of soup, the more i mix the better the ingredients mix. I am very inclined to change my mind about anything, even the things i hold dear. You are not under any obligation to convince me, if you do not like my questions then don't answer. Posting sarcasm is simply a dick move and makes the people around you consider you and your ideology as infant. I have never lived there, IF i ever go there it will be as a tourist and nothing more. I made this decision after trying, in vain, to understand your culture. Most of what i get on the internet and on the news (USA channels) is that there are lots of places that are awesome to live, other places are awful and that there is a ton of hypocrisy floating around. Like socialism is bad, don't touch my medicare. I spend this time asking these things so that i can learn and better myself. You fascinate me because you are a hot pot of about everything chaotic and crazy that, somehow, turned out to be the scariest and most powerful nation in the world. I seriously could not care less about your rules and laws about firearms. You want to arm every single citizen with firearms? Be my guest. Just keep the news flowing so we can see the results of this social experiment. Just for curiosity and learning. We don't hate you, we kind of like you, in a Stockholm syndrome kind of way. Deep down we want to like you "like you", but you are kind of scary and mean and try to spread freedom wherever there is oil or a puppet gets booted out of government while looking away from spots where freedom was really needed but no oil can be found or the government has your hand up its ass. Yes my views are irrelevant, just as an ant is irrelevant to the elephant, nevertheless the sum of all the ants around the elephant is what keeps the elephant alive (by cleaning up carcasses, putting nutrients deep down into the soil, etc...). My speciality is in another area entirely, i simply like reading and asking about other topics so i can be a better human being. In all seriousness, about my freedoms question, considering that the 9th is not a "you are free to do anything" clause, (if that was true you could walk around nude without getting fined for indecent exposure) what kind of freedoms does a citizen of the USA have that a citizen of the UK does not have? I seriously want to learn (as are lots of the people that lurk this forum), and considering that you have spent a good many hours reading well researched books you are the perfect person to tell us, the people that are reading this wall of text, the answer to this question.
