E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

There is that, but if you were Renault Nissan, would you trust HMG to honour any agreement? Especially given their current form.

For all we know the agreement could be 'hold off on announcing the closure'.

 

When their cost of living goes up 20% they will notice... But as you say, they get ****ed either way and learned helplessness has already kicked in. They'll just take it.

 

They'll mutter something about Thatcher and go back to whatever they were doing.

 

It did surprise me the North and Wales voted to leave considering how much money was pumped in via the EU to those regions, money the UK government wouldn't put in.

That said we have to be realistic, all areas of England, all of them except London, saw over 50% vote leave. From the BBC:

 

Yup, and they're all going to hurt.

Most people in the North and Wales either didn't know about regional development funds, or were fooled into believing hat the UK government would replace it --and give more, because it wouldn't be paying the EU anymore. Never mind that the reason the North and Wales got these regional development funds in the first place was because the UK government gives them jack ****.

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

Oh but it's out money! they're just giving back part of what we pay in...

...aye and do you really think the govt would've chipped into those projects themselves?

Like Lottery Funding it's basically a euphamism for '**** the govt should be paying for but won't'.

 

Well, Nissan, Honda and Toyota are meeting with the PM today, to discuss their future in the UK. Let's see what happens...

 

To put in context, this meeting has been planned since her trip to Japan in Aug/Sept 2017.

 

And people ask why remoaners keep saying leavers were turkeys voting for christmas, at least Scotland and Northern Ireland knew what side their bread was buttered on.

 

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I don't think that will change the outcome...

 

Neither, but its not just a snap call based on the recent forecasts.

 

I think that's what I meant about the EU message getting lost or not being conveyed.

It always appeared if something couldn't be done it was the EU's fault for not funding it (when it was our Government's responsibility), yet when development money flooded into a region from the EU the MPs were happy to show up and imply it was their doing, when it wasn't.

 

I'm not sure those recent forecasts really change much, remainers were already pretty sure that there would be a financial hit and the poorest, most deprived areas, and the vulnerable would be hit the hardest.

The leavers on the other hand probably either believe the numbers have been manipulated for political gain, that it's a forecast so is bound to be wrong, or that it's not modeled whatever fantastic bespoke deal that the governments going to get us.

 

It's a bit like a cancer patient dismissing the doctor's negative prognosis on the basis that it doesn't take into account the patient's preferred scenario of a miraculous recovery.

 

True, but people should know by now how politicians operate. Democracy is not just a right, but also a responsibility. An electorate that wants choices has to take responsibility for those choices. We can blame the farmer or the butcher, but it was the turkeys that voted for Christmas.

 

Surely in a democracy the only responsibility you have is to yourself?

I might be totally misguided here, but I've always considered voting to be about the most selfish act possible. I go into that polling booth to vote for what I want, not what might be best for the people around me or the country, because I am the one who has to live with what I've chosen. Case in point: I voted Leave becuase I wanted to, but I certainly don't think it is the best thing for the country.

Or maybe im just a bit of an arsehole...

 

It's probably closer to a cancer patient saying they're going to use alternative "medicine" and juju beads because modern medicine hasn't been working.

It depends on the person IMO, while there's undoubtedly some people who consider only themselves when they cast their vote i suspect that number is very low, even though you say you vote for what you want i suspect that's not entirely true as i would guess you took into account, to a lesser or greater extent, the effect that it would have on the wider society that you're a part of, no man is an island.

One thing the democratic process does, or at least should do, is cause people to question their and others place in society.

 

True enough but then you're faced with situations like my mum.

Before the vote: "oh i don't know what it's all about, i'm ignorant about politics"
"Oh so you're not voting then?"
"Oh no, i'm voting to leave"
"Oh, why?"
"I voted against it in the 70's. Anyway, i don't want to talk about it."

Pointing out it may make life harder for me and my partner (who she likes btw) just came back with "oh people like her will be fine". Whatever that means.

That brick wall may have a crack in it though, explaining a few things about it and she confesses she didn't realise how ignorant she'd been.

 

See thats the part I find myself disagreeing with entirely. I think its because every single person from every part of the country and every class / culture's vote carries the exact same weight? (I know it doesn't entirely in reality with constituencies etc). If you've got £10 in the bank, or £1M, you still go and vote, and that one vote is the same when its counted as anyone else's ballot.

 

Yes and i wasn't trying to say or imply that one vote carries more, or less, weight than another, that's obviously how it came across though so apologies.

I was trying to explain how, when deciding who to vote for, people don't decide based solely on their own self interests, at least not directly, I'd even go as far to say it's impossible to do so in a democratic society as ultimately those decision born out of self interest effect everyone including the person who voted for what are supposedly selfish reasons.