E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

I feel like, even though the wheels have well and truly fallen off this bitch, option two is what's going to happen.

Although if there's a second referendum, I guess I better work out postal voting. Without a UK address.

 

So long as you've not been gone too long. UK citizens making use of free movement who had been away too long couldn't vote.

You know, those ones who literally benefit everyday first hand from beinh in the EU https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...say-denied-vote-british-citizen-a8482411.html

 

I don't think it'll be that. The deal will get voted down so it'll be
1 Leave into WTO
2 Remain in the EU

That should have been the original choice really.

 

On government I can get behind second choice votes.

On something like this it's not workable, it would force every voter to pick a leave option even if remain is their choice, which means leave wins by default, because every single valid vote will contain a ticked leave box. You know that's how the government would frame it too, every single voter backed (Leave A or Leave B) whilst only X percent back remain, so we're leaving. Or if 55% percent voted remain first whilst 35% voted May's deal First and 25% Voted May's deal second, they'll call that a 60% vote for May's deal and victory.

 

Yep, they certainly would... just like with the spontaneous GE where May keeps bleating on about how everyone voted for a pro brexit party, when in fact voting for anything but the two biggest parties is equal to deleting your vote and both big parties ran on a pro brexit agenda.

 

They already are... '80+% of people at the GE backed leaved-leaning parties'

@Anfield beat me to it.

 

Good points. And interesting: how would Brexiteers sell a no-deal Brexit to the public?



Or perhaps just go:

 

Since you used a picture of the clown prince of British politics:

"The EU will immediately cave in, turn around and give us imaginary Super-Canada, honest."

 

The same way they have campaigned for the last five years.
1) All of this country's problems are caused by foreigners.
2) The EU makes us let those foreigners in.
3) When we leave the EU we will kick all the foreigners out and you can have their jobs.
4) Anyone who says otherwise is (insert dehumanising label such: Remoaner, Traitor, Apologist etc here) and hsould be ignored.
5) Any data that disagrees with us is part of a grand global conspiracy known only as 'project fear' and should be ignored.
6) Shout point 4 and 5 loudly and repeatedly at any dissenting voices. Avoid data based analysis at all costs, stick to emotive notions of loyalty and nationalism, us and them.
7) Use fake news, illegal targeted campaigning and illegal hidden campaign spending to support points 1-6.
8) Claim everyone else does it when caught, go back to points 4,5,6 loudly and aggressively.

 

Well perhaps it WTO + whatever FTA we can agree with the EU statting from there. Rather than the WTF we are offered.

But hard to sort out the how a new campaign looks as the Brexiteers will be saying, it's 1+ this and that (and some this and that would be likely unless the EU really likes stamping on it's own toes to prove how much it hurts when we do). And who leads the remain campaign? Tony Blair, David Millibrand? And where does Corbyn stand apart from wishing we could join a Bolivaran union with Venezuela?

 

Theresa May?

 

Sounds like "Mystery Box Brexit" to me.

I'm not sure Remain needs a campaign anymore. All it has to do is point at the Brexit promises made, and the last two years. Compare and contrast. All it has to do is ask for Brexit plan and roadmap.

 

Isn't she already doing that.

I wonder how the referendum would've turned out if those campaigning to leave the EU hadn't lied about what sort of leave they meant, it's looking increasing likely that we'll be faced with either remaining in the EU or leaving without any so called 'deals' (aka: a Hard Brexit).

I wonder how much support there is now, and indeed would have been at the time, for tearing up 170+ international treaties and starting everything from scratch.

 

If we leave into WTO, are we not on emergency tariffs because there have been objections?

 

Rather odd that the AG's legal advise to cabinet is dated the 13th of November, the same day Labour asked the government to publish it, it seems like cabinet were only given the AG's legal advise on May's deal after parliament asked for it to be published.

And to add insult to injury the AG's legal advise is only 6 pages long.

 

So basically the advice wasn't worth hiding, so why did HMG try so hard to keep it hidden.

 

It also puts any further advise from the current AG on rather shaky ground, his main premise for not releasing his own legal advise was because it would harm the national interest, exactly what part of what was released does that?

 

Does anyone believe that is actually the full thing? Because I sure don't.
Either way, the parts that the DUP doesn't like "harm the national interest", at least if you assume that Tories think that a Labour government would be against the national interest.
Because the DUP certainly doesn't like what is in the legal advice:
https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1070299803656048640

That doesn't allow for no border between NI and ROI, so choosing No deal (WTO) would cause the UK to automatically tear up the GFA, CTA and Belfast Agreement unless the UK solves the NI problem for good before the departure date.
That whole tearing up international agreements bit would inevitably bite the UK in arse during FTA negotiations.
And since it was the UKs idea to leave it would be on the UK to buckle under, i.e. inevitably it would result in the UK having to give NI back and to make matters worse... indyref 2 is pretty much certain to gain momentum if NI gets to leave the UK, so it would then just be England and Wales left.

 

When a govt lies and obstructs as much as this one has, they can't be surprised that everyone's natural reaction to anything they say is going to be 'I don't believe you'.

 

Indeed.
And it looks like it might get even worse on the lies and obstruction front...

Remember the good old times of yesterday when an amendment by Grieve gave parliament a say in what Plan B should be if the May deal is voted down?

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/201...to-ignore-the-grieve-amendment-threatens-cons