E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Cake-and-eat-it, Corbyn flavour.

 

Their all running scared of the electorate which would be rather depressing if it wasn't on such a serious issue, we have a representative democracy for a reason and it's about time MPs woke up to the fact that sometimes what the electorate want is not what they need or is best for them or the country.

I keep hearing the line that if there was a 2nd referendum or if we didn't follow through with Brexit that people would think parliament is ruling over the people instead of the people ruling over parliament, well guess what...parliament does rule over the people, that's what having a representative democracy is.

If the people want to do something utterly stupid like bring back the death penalty or go to war with America it's parliaments responsibility to either persuade them such actions are not in the best interest of the country or having failed to do so simply refuse to do it.

/morning rant.

On the Corbyn front i keep hoping for him to grow a pair and say Brexit is a bad idea irregardless of what way you slice it and should be canceled, if he doesn't by the time it comes to another public vote (GE or referendum) there's no way I'd even consider voting for them ever.

 

The conservatives need to get on a junk May for someone who is capable of articulating why they think we should be leaving and how it can happen. May's strategy of running down the clock and then presenting this as the only deal possible is a disaster and have to try and stay sane and hope it is just down to incompetence.

There's no reason for britain to be in the single market without a say on the rules, which will as sure as France is French, be change to put us at an increasing disadvantage as time goes on. It's not a thing we can plausibly agree to as it will cause trouble for ever after that will be good for no-one in this country.

As I see it now Brexit has to happen as the EU wants to move in a different direction with the Euro area economy supported through the EU budget. It's not going to be viable to be in the EU without being in the single currency, and we're not joining it (and if we had in 1999 the aftermath of the financial crisis would have blown it apart with the size of the UK's financial sector).

We need a straight taking PM that will go back the the EU, state that what has been agreed is a dog's dinner, and propose that we extend article 50 and create a far simpler arrangement that can be understood by all parties without suspension of disbelief over fitting unicorns through the eye of a needle or whatever mixed metaphor you want to throw at it.

 

Mays deal is what Leavers voted for I think they should just get behind it and support it.

 

Mays deal puts in the position that Leavers were complaining we were already in, but weren't.

Legally bound to follow EU laws that we would have no input on and unable to leave that relationship without the EU's permission - can't see why any Leaver would support that.

Edit: As for rengotiating, it's not like dealing with one country. It's a Union of countries following agreed upon rules - you can't change the rules to make a trade deal without threatening the Union. It's not hardball it's just the way it is.

We have the best deal. Stay with it and in the EU or leave on WTO.

And it's funny, people just want it done with. This is just the withdrawl agreement, we haven't even started with trade talks.

 

Oh I know, I just find it amusing Brexiters constantly say they knew what they voted for.
So by that logic TM's deal is what they voted for.

 

If WTO terms are so good how come there's a need for free trade agreements.

The reason there's no one capable of articulating why they think we should be leaving and how it can happen is because nothing about Brexit is logical and it's beyond all reason, it's basically a belief.

 

Exactly.

All this pussfooting around with oh we'll get a great deal, no, the best deal the EU can offer is membership - which is what we have.

 

Btw just to provide some idea on how long it will take to hammer out the future relationship between the UK and EU, the negotiations to update the agreements between Switzerland and the EU concluded today after 4 years (and that is just negotiations, if and when it actually gets approved and comes into effect remains to be seen).

 

Vote Leave couldn't manage it during the EU Referendum: no vision, no plan, just unicorns, magic cake and project "ph34r the darkies". Nobody has been able to make a rational case since: not BoJo the clown, not the ERG, nobody --unless they want to sound deluded or just plain dumb. Or both.

There is no sane, rational argument for leaving the EU, no sunny upsides and no simple, damage-free way of doing so.

Richard North (Leave Alliance) disagrees. So did, at one point, many Brexiteers like Owen Patterson, Daniel Hanan, Arron Banks, even Nigel Farage.

Like I said: nobody has been able to make a sound argument for leaving the EU, without sounding either deluded or just plain dumb, or both.

Is that why the EU agreed to the UK not having to adopt the Euro in perpetuity? It obviously thought it was viable.

You can have anything you want: WTO, Canada+++, EEA ---as long as you make a viable proposal on the Irish border issue. But looking closer to home I'd say that the UK's biggest problem is that it has very few straight-talking politicians. Voters seem to prefer the bullshitting kind.

 

Speaking of which: have you ever seen someone come off their antipsychotics abruptly? Not pretty. If no-deal Brexit happens, it is going to be interesting times.

 

Don't worry, the super genius MP Priti Patel is on the case

 

At the same time as planes are falling out of the sky and the plague of locusts starts?

 

IIRC going cold turkey on some anti-depressants is similarly... unpleasant...

 

Relax, no one has hired Chris Grayling as a pilot.

 

At least we won't starve then, they keep saying we should switch to an insect based diet.

 

Amber Rudd the first to break ranks (while supporting the deal...mmmmkkk) mentioning Norway+ and talk of a referemdum without spewing "will of the people".

 

I'm sure someone not in the UK poo-poo'd the idea of a Norway style deal already, not sure if Rudd actually knows what she's talking about..

But then, that could be said of everything that falls out of her trap.

 

Hey, nice straw man you got there (or: hello, belief bias)!

Oh, very. And then there's painkillers like dihydrocodeine and fentanyl. Don't want to abruptly withdraw from those.

But, you know, I'm just going by the Secretary of Health's expressed concerns here. I'm sure Risky knows better.