E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Even if that completely failed there'd still be an EU, a battered, bruised and probably smaller EU but it would still be there as an institution. I'm no fan of giving up currency issuer status and it's where i would draw a red-line, that's what i find most concerning, that in X years we'll rejoin and part of that will involve giving up our sovereign currency issuing status.

That overtly imposed governance is imposed by the members themselves, in the same manner as our government overtly imposes things on the different regions of the UK with the consent of MPs, saying they overtly impose governance is like saying the US government overtly imposes on individual states despite each state being a part of the house and senate.

 

I'm wasn't saying them wanting to leave, more how far will the EU let countries go and what will (can) they do about it?

I mean when it comes to major matters if there's more than one country involved the EU can appear powerless. Take Poland and Hungary who will veto any sanctions against each other the EU try to impose fpr example.

I'm sorry but to also minimize problems as bickering is almost as misguided as saying the UK will do wonderfully great outside of the EU.

There are big issues in the EU that need dealing with and I want us in there dealing with them. Not on the outside as observers and certainly not on the inside ignoring them.

There are no winners in the UK leaving,

 

The EU is somehow managing to get 27 countries to work together in what, even with all its complications, frictions and differences, is a remarkably coherent system. I think that it will manage these crises also.

It will also manage the UK leaving, and it most probably not let it back in for the next few decades, even if the UK changes its mind and begs. EEA, perhaps, but politically it'll be like:

 

Not saying that it isn't or it won't.

Oh it will manage but it will also be impacted.

As for the gifs, they do nothing for me. As a remainer with an EU partner I find it a bit too serious for gifs and, what often comes across as, a certain level of gloating at this clust***.

 

Well, as you know I am an EU immigrant NHS clinician citizen of nowhere/bargaining chip/queue jumper with a British partner, and frankly if I don't strategically deploy some black humour now and then I will lose my sanity and humanity to this Brexit thing. So occasionally, I will gif. No offence meant.

 

It will let the countries go as far as the countries want, that's what democracy is, if there's more right wing governments and politicians then there will be a more right wing EU.

I'll admit that how far an individual country can go is limited due to an individual country being out numbered but the same is true of any democratic system, you'll have the extremes at either end and they often cause the 'center' ground to shift but the extreme ends of the spectrum never get to set policies.

Yea that one made me laugh, it's almost like it didn't occur to them that if they tried to apply sanctions to two nations for breaking the rules that they'd team up and veto each others sanctions, naive or what.

I suspect when they get that mess sorted there'll be some sort of change to the treaties to prevent such a thing from happening again.

 

Depends how it fails, chances are it’s Germany that pulls out of the euro and does a blanket conversion of euros to Deutschmark. That will pretty much make all other euro currency’s worthless overnight.

At that point I think that Russian plan would pretty much follow through.

 

The discussion around UK/EU partners made me think of this.



Sad state of affairs with the service folk with EU partners and an interesting discussion about Russia.

 

We, in the collective sense, seem to have differing opinions as some people seem to be saying Germany has done pretty well out of the Euro (fix-the-spade a few posts ago) and you're saying Germany would pull out. I think i understand where both opinions are coming from, they'd be fed up bailing other out, their running a surplus, or something along those line, however if people think Germany has done both well and bad out of the Euro does that mean it's neutral for Germany.

Speaking of Russia i found this blog post that talks about the dodgy dealing, influences, and neoliberal links to Russia, I still find it utterly stunning that people believe Brexit is going to improve their lot in life and...

He sat down and had a talk with Professor Thom Brooks, head of Law at Durham University, a few days later that's also interesting to listen to.

 

Yea i saw that one too. It was pretty good, I linked the other one mostly due to discussions around partners. Also I think it's good to have service people saying they are against Brexit, because as he mentions the general perception is that they aren't and that idea is being spread.

 

The euro was beneficial to Germany because all the "inefficient" countries like Greece and Italy kept the value of the Euro lower, which benefitted there exporters.
However all those surpluses started to build up in German banks so they lent it to those inefficient countries so they could buy more German (and the rest) stuff etc etc.
Then there's a crash and all that debt gets shifted into public ownership to save the banking system, which in turn will require those countries to be bailed out.
Eventually the amount of debt is going to be to big for Germany to bail out so its a double edged sword.

 

I think the people who engineered Brexit couldn't care less about service men and women, their partners, mothers, fathers, or family. I know that sounds harsh but i guess their just part of the collateral damage in the same manner as the 'ordinary' working people they co-opted into voting for something that's going to make their lives worse.

The blog post i linked to earlier talking about 55 Tufton Street describes how such people are dispensable when it comes to achieving their goal of a low-tax, small state, deregulated economy.

That makes more sense, it's unknown if that debt is going to continue to increase overtime though and AFAIK Germany didn't have to buy, is it the ECB, debt bonds. Ultimately though the single currency, as a word and possibly in some future, may have been a good idea like the single currency in America was a good idea, however it was really badly implemented, designed, engineered, or whatever IMO.

Like i said adopting the single currency would be where I'd draw a red-line as the, currently, untapped power a sovereign currency issuer has is immeasurable. What's most concerning, to me, is that Brexit will adversely effect peoples live so much that there'll be clamoring to rejoin the EU at some point in the future at any cost.

 

Tbh I wouldn't put it past the Brexit mob to **** Brexit up so spectacularly that their desire to have less EU results in the UK having more EU.

 

Good news, I solved the Brexit problem.

I went to visit my aunt who lives on the continent over Christmas and since I felt guilty about not having cared enough for relatives in the past her entire brood of kids has been spoiled rotten, so just wait until they grow up and the EU will fall

 

Alternatively, you have secured plenty of EU-based relatives to crash out with in the future.

 

Saw this on OCUKs brexit thread, thought it was a good video.

 

Isn't Carl Benjamin a racist alt-right conspiracy nut-job? Do you think he was aware of how uninformed he is, I'm not sure he even understood the answers people gave to his typical leaver sound bites, when he said the biggest challenges facing the world is political correctness and Islam i literally face palmed.

It's worth watching though as he doesn't say much and most of the people do a great job of describing why some of the rhetoric surrounding Brexit is nothing more than lies.

 

Not really sure tbh, I know I've heard him mentioned when seeing discussions about anti-islam etc. The reason for linking the video was the responses he got. Probably not the 'trouble' he was after at the start of the video.

 

Yea, sorry if what i said implied it's not worth watching, that wasn't the intention as i think it's one of the few videos that, in Mr Cumberbatch's words, is not a pro-remain “stitch-up”, that it's not too one-sided.

That the people he interviewed explained very succinctly why the rhetoric he's picked up about trade and sovereignty are false, and that we can only tackle the threats facing humanity on a global scale.

In other news i wonder how the new years honors combined with all the preparation for a no deal scenario in recent weeks will effect how MPs vote on May's deal, i wouldn't be surprised if she manages to squeak it over the line.

 

It depends on how many MPs believe that there would be chaos if they voted it down, combined with how many would be happy to be responsible for --or deal with-- that chaos. Labour hopes that such chaos would be their opportunity for a GE and leadership (they're wrong); hard-core Brexiteer MPs hope such chaos will be an opportunity to drive through their deregulated free market ideology: good ol' shock doctrine. Jeremy Hunt certainly thinks that is likely to happen.

Then there is the Pro-Remain MPs; some hope chaos may lead to a second referendum; some Pro-Brexit MPs fear the same. However just like they voted through ratification of the EU Referendum result despite heavy misgivings, most MPs may vote the deal through because the alternative of chaos is just too scary to contemplate. Most MPs are creatures of comfort; they will take the easiest political path.