E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Yup. The spinelessness of the Tories is what got us into this mess, and IMO Cameron is as much to blame as May. Either one of them could have said "This is dumb, we're not following such a slim majority off a cliff edge." May could have had more testicular fortitude than her predecessor and said '**** the whole thing'.

While she doesn't bear the blame for the referendum and the starting of this mess, she bears the blame for the failure to lead her party (and by extension, stop it tearing itself apart), the failure to impart to the public just how complex this is, the failure to make the EU27 think of the UK as anything but a petulant child with no plan, but making demands anyway. There's literally nothing about her tenure as PM or party leader that speaks to any kind of skill at all. She has continued a spectacularly dim career with many moments highlighting just how incompetent she is. Let's not forget that she "won" that leadership by default. Not that Leadsom would have been any better, I don't think. She makes noise in the chamber, but I think that's because no one's gunning for her like they are May.

May also seems to lack any kind of humility, or self-reflection. She'd be a garbage human being in any situation, it just so happens that politics got the shitty end of the May stick.

Which makes her all the easier to dislike.

As much as I'd like to imagine some malice is behind that, I suspect it's more shitty IT budgets and servers grinding to a halt under the load.

 

Going on this DDoS map (careful as it's pretty taxing) we're currently under attack from a DDoS botnet.

 

We should have known:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...theresa-mays-record-as-home-secretary-tell-us

She was hiding most of the referendum campaign, some say she's a Remainer in charge of Brexit - I think she's a Trojan Horse.

 

Interesting. Thanks for the headsup, on a laptop so I don't want to throw anything more taxing at it than a couple of browser tabs

 

If she had any skill in politics I'd agree that she's a Trojan horse, but I think she's too useless to be anything but a scapegoat for the Tories.

 

True. Although the Trojan horse wasn't actually very skilled at being a horse.

Her 'statement' last night seemed to be out of the Trump/Bannon book.

 

True!

But the things in it were pretty good at what they did. Or at least good enough to get the job done.

I think May's entire career could be summed up with 'fake it til you make it', except she never picked up any tangible skills along the way.

 

True, although I think it's been more 'fake it until it gets tricky, then hide, then blame everyone else'.

I remember as Home Sec when she accused the Police of "crying wolf".... She had no idea then, as you say, she's not learned anything since then.

Edit: Petition is back up - currently around 630k
Edit: Make that 643k
Edit: And down for maintenance....

 

Tbh, I don't expect that petition to go very far unless it somehow gets more signatures than there were voters for leaving.

Without that it's hardly definitive proof that more people want to stay than wanted to remain at the point of referendum.

 

It won't get more than 17.4 million signatures. But it does demonstrate - along with all the other polling going on - that public opinion on Brexit has most definitely shifted since the referendum.

 

But that's the problem - Unless it gets more than 17.4m verifiable signatures, there's absolutely no way any of the Brexiteers would consider it to be indicative of a change in opinion. Although they'd almost certainly cry foul about it.

I think the even bigger problem is that May has shown time and again that she can't change her mind on anything. Once she's made up her mind - In this case that not a soul wants a second referendum, despite evidence to the contrary - She sticks to it until people give up telling her she's wrong.

 

It's a fair point, although it's all some people have left. That and the march on the 23rd.

True, the Maybot definitely needs a BIOS update.

 

Aye, with a blind moron at the wheel of UK government there's not much else that people can do. I just don't see it making the blindest bit of difference to what happens.

 

When it comes to Europe those people largely haven't changed their minds in decades, so why would they change now? They got the result they wanted in the first referendum, that's all the ammunition they need. They are implacable.

 

Which, to me, makes the entire exercise fruitless unless an impossibly huge volume of people sign it. Anything less than 17.4m is easily dismissed as 'just' the original remainers.

 

Even if many may not, some of them actually aren't with us anymore and the deomgraphics have changed

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html?amp

 

But my point is that even if the entire electorate signed this petition, that still would not convince the hard-core Brexiteers. They'd just find another excuse, another bout of rhetoric with which to justify leaving the EU. They cannot and will not be convinced by anything.

 

Gotcha, yeah you're absolutely correct on that.

 

True enough - But the ones who want to be reelected would, if their entire constituency now preferred to remain, begrudgingly act accordingly lest they lose their seat. I'd imagine. Since most MP's have a hardon for self-preservation over doing what they believe in. They'd probably still bang on about it, but in the interest of not being voted out and losing their precious MP benefits I'd expect a swing in enough MP's voting to turn the situation around.

 

It's not just the MPs though, there are plenty of independently wealthy and powerful Brexiteers out there. Nigel Farage, joke of a man though he is, was never elected as an MP and look at the situation he's helped create.