E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

I've got a lot more respect for Dominic Grieve after hearing him on the Remainiacs podcast recently. I mean, he's still a Tory so I never agree with him on the vast majority of policy matters, but it really is refreshing to hear a Tory talking sensibly for once.

 

That's because you agree with abortion; if you're a person who disagrees because they consider it murdering a child, then the woman has nothing to do with it, it's all about the child.

If you see it as a woman's issue then you've already made your mind up.

 

I find it so ****ed that someone could equate an unborn human with an already living human - Not saying you do, mind, just that I find the entire concept entirely confusing.

 

It's a very simplistic view, that life begins at conception, and all life is supremely sacred (no dignified suicides, mind).

I think that's why it appeals to so many.

 

I guess I don't understand why anyone believes they have the right to tell someone they have to carry a child to term because <insert reason>, completely disregarding anything other than some dumbass book about an imagianary friend.

Don't get me wrong, if you want an imaginary friend and want to share the same imaginary friend as X other people then go for it, but to use that to justify any behaviour that impacts other people in a negative way is just absurd in this day and age.

 

For me personally it's not about telling someone else what to do, or even the sanctity of life, i share the same view Mr H voiced a couple of pages ago on assisted dying for what it's worth, for me it's more about not terminating what some people would view as, how can i say this, less than 'perfect' children like those with downs or similar.

I'm not a parent so it's not my place to judge and going on what @Anfield said about there being an extreme drop off in viability when you go down to even just 23 weeks that medical science doesn't really have a way around I'd say we have it about right, for now.

Having said that i wouldn't want to see us toying with what could be considered eugenics, not that that's where we are or even considering going.

Anyhow this is all rather OT isn't it, can't we get back to something less controversial like Brexit.

 

Frankly, I don't give a **** whether the potential mother wants to abort because the child to be might have downs or because it has a foot growing out of its forehead. That's not my decision to make - And as long as medical science agrees the foetus isn't too far along to abort, it's the potential mothers decision to make.

I also don't give a **** if you get to a point in your life and your illness has no medical options left and will only get worse and decide you want to commit assisted suicide. That's not my decision to make - If someone wants to die because they can't face however little time they have left in pain, I don't think anyone has the right to tell them they can't commit suicide.

While we're on the subject of telling people who can or can't be killed, the death penalty is also functionally retarded and I think that needs to go away. Along with that barbaric **** about hand cutting off.

But you're not wrong. This isn't Brexit-related.

Yet.

 

I see it as an issue between the woman and the unborn child, because their lives are intertwined. The woman carries the child to term; the woman has to have the abortion; the woman is left holding the baby if she doesn't --literally and figuratively.

I rarely see people protesting against abortion also protesting against child abuse and neglect, child poverty or for better care of the disabled. It's simply not their problem, so they are not aware.

 

If only it were that simple, i guess you know as well as i that external factors will influence the decision, things like can i afford the extra costs involved, both financially and personally, in raising a child with mental or physical health problems, will the society he or she are raised in be accepting and helpful or will they be hostile and make life harder, etc, etc.

 

As someone who argues with "Both Lives Matter" in NI on a regular basis...I've found that the best way to throw their sense of moral superiority for a loop is ask them if they agree with IVF...then explain the actual process.

 

Yes, but it is the mother who carries the burden and responsibility of making those decisions.

I would argue this society is pretty hostile to any disadvantaged child, whether it is economically, socially, physically or mentally. Abortion may well be the kindest act.

 

As far as I'm concerned there's enough people in the world already. Aborting a few more unwanted kids might help the explosive population growth, so making it harder to abort is both dumb as ****, and an inappropriate interference in someone's right to make their own life decisions. IMO.

 

Regardless of the abortion debate... society should really try harder on that front.

 

Especially when so many socially and mentally challenged people are running for party leader at the moment.

Boom. Looped back to Brexit.

 

Yes but as you allude to in your second sentence that decision isn't exactly free from burden and responsibility so it's not much of a choice, in an attempt to bring this back to Brexit it's a bit like saying the decision to leave without a WA is the burden and responsibility of the UK and while that's technically true it's not much of a choice, at least not for people who ain't on drugs.

I'd say this society is pretty hostile to anyone who decides to start a family full stop, let alone one with a disadvantaged child.

 

Oh look, another Brexit fantasy bites the dust.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48602075

Not like I told you so repeatedly for a long time or anything like that.

 

The report may say that but i can't see them doing it, the EU would just introduce border checks on any goods coming from Ireland, they probably wouldn't have to do it for long as the UK would soon be moaning about people smuggling goods in from Ireland because everything in the UK would be so expensive.

 

Water is wet

 

Maybe... but don't forget the influence of events in Asia:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ss-asia-african-swine-fever-spreads-thailand-

So especially when it comes to agriculture arguing against a physical border infrastructure between the EU and UK in a no deal scenario will be rather hard to do, because no one wants do anything that would increase the risk of that sh*t spreading in Europe.

 

Remember this?

...or remember BSE? the UK bas banned from exporting beef to the EU for 10 years, iirc some further afield countries still ban imports of british beef/cattle.