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Racial Hatred Abounds

Discussion in 'Serious' started by LennyRhys, 4 May 2019.

  1. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge. Software Dev @ Corsair Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    This is beyond stupid. Visit Luton. You'll find white people that don't like black people.
    Ehhh, wrong. You don't need to hate another race to be racist. You need to treat someone different because of their race.
    So you treated them differently due to their race? Sounds like racism to me.
    This is some of the dumbest **** I have seen online and I read WCCF Tech occasionally. Here's what I want you to do. Go find 2 stories discussing the same exact crime... The only difference being one of the suspects is white and one of the is black. I bet my ****ing house that they are different. Take mass shootings in America for example.Black or even just not casper white? terrorist or gang member. White? Mental health. Lets look at the the gang violence that's happening at the moment. It's funny how the media description goes from "troubled child" to "violent criminal" when the race changes.
    Which produced shitty children. You had shitty friends.

    I think you're just a racist tbh but aren't willing to admit it. If I went around saying "An autistic kid once robbed me at knife point. Ever since I've thought of them differently" I would be disablist (I think that's the correct term). Simple as really. Is it the right attitude to have? 100% No. Can I understand it from a victims point of view? Yes.
     
    silk186, edzieba, RedFlames and 2 others like this.
  2. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Not to derail this discussion, but ain't this the truth. How about 2018’s A Star Is Born, which is the third remake of the 1937 original!

    A bit more on topic: you might think that minority representation in films pointless, or insulting, or tokenism, but who cares what you think - what do people from those minorities think?
     
    Gareth Halfacree likes this.
  3. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Oh, that is savage.
     
  4. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    They see it in two ways. Yay we replaced the white guy and it's stupid. The rest indifferent. Kinda like everyone else.

    I see it as pathetic, but each to their own.

    Mlyons - way to cherry pick, manipulate and create things that aren't there. That's incredibly modern of you.

    And accusing me of being racist. LOL. That one replaced the Hitler insult really well. That's what people your age do now. Don't agree? Just call them stupid and racist.

    It doesn't work, try something else.
     
  5. Mr Meltdown

    Mr Meltdown Minimodder

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    Shouldnt that be an ex steam friend then, given that it offends you that much? if you cant reason with him and he wont rein it in then why have anything to do with them?
     
  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Dude, responding to someone finding the things you said racist - as I say, I found framing including non-white people as "removing white people" racist, which is why I'm in 'ere instead of typing in the other window where my editor is patiently expecting an article on the Internet of Things - by being ageist isn't a great look.
    I used to live in a predominately Asian area of Bradford - the area I'm in now was predominately white but has shifted about 50-50 over the last decade - and I very vividly recall queuing at the local independent electrical shop for a ceiling rose pendant. The guy ahead of me was served, thanked the staff member, left. I started to say what I wanted, when the staff member said "can't stand 'em, they should go back to the effin' jungle." It was then I realised two things: the guy ahead of me was black, apparently, I wasn't paying attention 'cos I was too busy deciding if the thing I needed was called a "rose pendant" or just a "pendant"; and the guy serving me was a Humongous Racialist.

    I was stunned for a bit, then I walked out. Went to Wickes instead.

    The shop's closed down now. Hope it's 'cos the tit went bankrupt.
     
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  7. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I didn't find removing white people racist. Please point out where I said that as he seems to think I have. I said it was stupid. Stupid because if I were black I'd find it insulting as it's a lazy way to appease me. Also read the part where I said it would be better to have real black heroes and movies of which there are plenty, rather than remaking other movies.

    If you can't understand that then I can't help you. It's going to be a matter of accepting someone else's view without immediately calling them stupid and racist. Which ain't very nice but seems to be perfectly acceptable these days.

    Add what you want, twist and manipulate all you like but you can't change intent and meaning. If I were racist I would at least have the guts to admit and accept it, because my dumb ass views would allow me to believe it.

    I've explained how I feel. I'm almost glad I sat and stared out of the windows during RE, and have forged my own beliefs.
     
  8. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Seems like a sweeping generalisation. Also seems at odds with Gareth's friends' experiences.
     
  9. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Yes it's marvelously passive aggressive isn't it.

    Oh, wait.
     
  10. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Everyone leads different paths and different lives.
     
  11. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I used to visit Bradford every summer. My friends lived in Oldham and their grandparents were up in Bradford. Very interesting place.

    Their nan still lives there on the same street. She's nearly a hundred now.

    But yes, racism sadly exists everywhere in every religion and colour.

    And it's going to be almost impossible to be rid of. It's a huge problem.
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Apologies, I may have phrased that badly. What I mean is that saying adding non-white actors to films is "removing white people" sounds racist, and indeed is a thing racists say.

    Analogy time! (You know I love me some analogy.)

    You've grown up drinking orange squash. You like orange squash. Every time you go to get a drink, the only thing on offer is orange squash. You like orange squash. Everything is fine.

    Somebody comes along and thinks that maybe having nothing but orange squash isn't great. They decide to replace a few of the drinks with blackcurrant squash. Not all of them, just one or two here and there. You can still have orange squash, but now people who don't like orange squash find that there's a drink which better represents their needs and wants. They're happy.

    But you're not happy. You don't see it as adding blackcurrant squash, like they do, you see it as removing orange squash. Even though for decades orange squash had the drinks market all to itself. Even though orange squash still accounts for the majority of drinks on offer. It's not even that you don't like blackcurrant squash, some of your best friends drink blackcurrant squash, you're not squashist, but...

    Does that help explain why talking about adding non-white people (non-orange-squash drinks) to media (drinks options) by saying they're "removing white people" ("removing orange squash") comes across as racist?
    D'you know one of the best ways to combat it? C'mon, say it with me now: representation.

    A lot - not all, but a lot - of racists, especially the casual "I'm not racist, but" lot, have no actual experience of other races. They just see what the media tells them. Going back to films, that's seeing white people as heroic and non-white people as either entirely absent or actively villainous. Pop in some non-white heroes, and when someone - and I'm thinking kids, here, primarily but not exclusively - meets their first non-white person their mind doesn't immediately jump to "different" or "evil" but instead "hey, you look like Hero from Film. Neat!"

    Again: it's about adding, not removing. Nobody's taken away the original Ghostbusters, it's still there.
     
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  13. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Sure, but I was asking what people from minorities think about representation and you seemed to be saying that they don't place any value on such representation when you've been given an example of others valuing it. Almost seems like you're dismissing that example rather than offering a counterexample (because you've not qualified your statement to restrict it to "people you know" or "in your experience").

    The reason that it matters is because making sweeping generalisations on the basis of, say, race, is something to be avoided.

    And also because appearing to dismiss the concerns of a minority group when you're not a member of said group is also something to be avoided.
     
  14. MLyons

    MLyons 70% Dev, 30% Doge. DevDoge. Software Dev @ Corsair Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    But ain't it the truth. Suppose I could have swapped it for The Verge computer building advice but it works.
    Sorry for not breaking down all of your posts. I'm at work doing work. Thought I'd check the forums while waiting for some benchmarks to finish.
    Ok boomer, Sounds pretty ageist. Yes i am accusing you of being racist. You have admitted yourself you saw black people differently based on race. How old are you again? What's next? All people my age are lazy, entitled and drugged up? :hehe:
    Ok, I'll go the non passive route. I think you're a racist who feels like they can play the victim card in any argument to win when you feel threatened by the fact that people call you out on your BS.
     
  15. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I'm on my phone now so replying is difficult.

    I suppose, Gareth, that my autism does truly bring with it a gift and a curse. Curse because of my issues and problems, gift because I probably look at the world very differently.

    I'm not a fussy eater for example, I'm grateful for anything. Using your analogy? It wouldn't bother me. Just like it didn't bother me when I found out my cousins were gay, nor did it stop me going to their wedding.

    Like I said, I treat everyone equally and always have. Including the very mentally disabled. If I saw a kid cry at school I'd feel bad. Regardless of their colour.

    I especially enjoyed the mixture we had at work, and the way all three of us viewed the world around us. We were literally ridiculing it as stupid. Which was amazing.

    I am going to put one thing straight though, as I don't like the way it was angrily spat at me.

    After being mugged at knifepoint I was incredibly wary of black teenagers. Not doing so would have been stupid, especially knowing they were out to get white kids who didn't look like they could defend themselves. Like small kids.

    It didn't make me racist. Wary? Yes. Scared? Yes. Hateful and racist? No. Just no. No matter how much you twist or manipulate that it doesn't change. Would have I welcomed Colin into my life and my house otherwise? Absolutely not.

    Had I not had the talks with my friend who fell into that life? Then I wouldn't understand it, not even now. I even know the cause, though I'm not going into that now as it will just have more accusations and insults thrown at me.

    But it happened. It didn't make me racist, it just did the opposite of helping matters.
     
  16. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I don't think you under stand passive aggression.

    It's quite easy, just read your post back. You're really very good at it
     
  17. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Ahem:
    It's entirely understandable to feel that way after such an experience, but it certainly means that you haven't always treated everyone equally: there was a period, by your own admission, when you were more fearful of young black people than of people from other races, and thus treated them differently. You're not any more, but you were.
    You remember that I'm on the spectrum too, right? Wasting an afternoon multi-quoting a discussion about racism and representation with someone I've never met isn't something that NTs do, I don't think...

    EDIT:
    I missed this on my first look at the message, so apologies for the edit, but: re-read that back. What you're saying there, unless you missed a qualification or two, is that you were wary of all black teenagers because you knew they were all out to get white kids. Can you see why that's racist? It'd be like a fat person knocking me on my arse in the shop - and I say this as a husky gentleman myself - and deciding that I knew that all fat people were out to push me and people like me over.

    Like I say, it's understandable why you felt like that at the time. It's less understandable why you would type that now and think it doesn't come across as racist. If you'd written "I was incredibly wary of black teenagers, knowing that at least one group of them were out to get white kids," that'd be a different matter - but you didn't, and it'd be good if you had a thought about why you didn't.
     
    Last edited: 7 Nov 2019
  18. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Oh is that the biggest insult young people use these days?

    Then maybe you shouldn't have half assed it and rushed into a conversation without reading it properly and taking the time to understand it, huh? We're talking about racism as a broad spectrum. Remember the word, understanding.

    I don't get the ageist part. I guess that's another modern joke huh?

    You just don't want to understand and accept that racism comes from everywhere. Everyone. You think it's just a white thing and if we all stopped doing it it would stop. Which is really, terrifically daft. Daft because in this day and age young people think if you can train a small island to think in a certain way that the whole world will follow suit. Lazy? nope. Didn't say that did I? entitled? depends on how your parents raised you I guess. Drugged up? I don't even know what the drug of choice is these days but nope, I don't recall saying that either.

    Maybe you should work on your aggression and take the time to let things sink in and understand them properly. As for the playing the victim? not at all. I was just speaking of experience. You know? something that happened to me and changed things. For the worse. It didn't make me racist, as I have explained. Which I shouldn't have to because if you opened your mind a little and closed your mouth you could let it digest a bit.
     
  19. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Yup it happened and no, I am not happy about it. I hate it. It wasn't racism Gareth. If it was? how the hell would I have sat down with a black friend and listened whilst he explained it all to me?

    He said it was for many reasons. Mostly that his grandparents hated white people (mostly because of how they were treated when they arrived) and also because of being taught about slavery when they were too young to understand that that was back then and things were different. You know? kinda like how Ricky Gervais says that we shouldn't teach kids religion until they're 21? so that it doesn't cause them issues. He also said that this group of people hated white people and thus felt absolutely no remorse whatsoever for ruining their lives (not thinking about the impact of a ratchet knife to the throat) because they were white and they owed them something.

    I got past all of that. Life has a funny way of opening doors, should you decide to go into them. Just like he too has gone past that and is now a totally different person. Most of it he says was just caused by teenage angst and wanting someone to take it out on. And we all feel that way. Which, IMO, is the most important part of what Gervais says. There is a time and a place for everything, and not when people are so young and impressionable. Especially when they are at a stage of their life where they can't properly understand it, and accept it as the norm.

    TBH? I don't give a crap what any one thinks of me. If I did I'd be long gone. I don't like upsetting people, but if they are too shallow to put the thought into understanding what I say then I can't change that. Like I maintain, it is all about intent. Hatred, and intent. If it's not there you can't just magic it up and apply it, no matter how much you insult or abuse someone. Well, unless you harvest hatred yourself of course.
     
  20. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    Apologies for the scattered replies. Kinda like my brain ATM.

    I am fully aware of what Luton is like. I should know, it's where that **** Tommy Robinson comes from. The same **** who started the EDL,and brought out some of the dumbest people on the planet. I'm also aware that there has been stabbings there too, so I do actually know what is going on around me.

    He's not helping. At all. All he does is incite more hatred, more difference and more problems.
     

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