You see TN panel are in reality much more than 2ms. The reason for this, is that TN panels can only output 6-bit colors (262 144 colors), the way it does to output the missing colors to get 8-bit (16 777 216 colors), it uses a technique of take the 2 closet colors it can produce, and switch between them like no tomorrow, to trick your eye that it's the correct color... hence the 2ms response rate (as manufactures don't calculate white to black response time, but rather any gray they want to another gray they want). Now in a game.. pictures moves.... soo you move a color which switchs between thhem... it will look like about 6-8ms response rate... A IPS panel is true 8-bit panel to start with, so the problem in trying to trick your eyes with the missing colors is simply not there, especially that nearly all software, games, and most digital cameras are all designed to be used with an 8-bit colors. A professional will use a 10-bit or more panel, which is important in magazines/posters, professional photographs and so on... and if that is the case, the U2410 can do it thanks to it's 12-bit look up table (using the same technique as in TN panel for the missing colors.. UNLESS you use Adobe RGB or sRGB color profile in the monitor). In result, the image won't be super color accurate, but at least it won't be too bad, and this explains why this monitor is fantastic for non-real professionals who requires all these 10-bit+ colors.
That was a really good explanation, thanks. But let's get back to lag. Is there any comparisons between this and CRT panel that shows the lag input that you've seen? the monitor sounds fantastic, but i just need that final push. . .
I got got you covered! CRT VS U2410! Please note that my camera is the Canon PowerShot A75, it's a very old one, and not the fastest in the world. So don't take these shot as 100% accurate, but it give you an idea. I also included additional shots: Response time Shot 1: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/test1.jpg Response time Shot 2: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/test2.jpg Refresh rate Shot 1: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/test21.jpg Refresh rate Shot 2: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/test22.jpg U2410 stand - cables (1x DVI, 1x DisplayPort,1x power cable, 1x USB (for USB hub - not in picture), 1x VGA): http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/cables.jpg U2410 stand - full motion: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/motion.jpg U2410 OSD Menu: http://www.helpweaver.com/monitor/OSD.jpg
I'm kinda swinging to the Dell, it just looks better and the features (including dead pixel policy) are much better. I work with PC's and some of the HP stuff is really plastic.
goodbytes, your responses to this thread have been awesome, definitely +1 to your rep! where would you recommend buying it?
I bit the bullet and ordered the u2410, is it best to use hdmi or display port, as my 5850 uses both, no sound needed either, plus its worth mentioning it comes with display port and not hdmi
The U2410 has Display Port and HDMI inputs. It only comes with Display port cable.. however if you order from Small Business (just say family business), you can see in having them to send you a free HDMI cable with some negotiation. I am sure they do it. These cables cost pennies to make. HDMI cables are the same as Display port. Both transport video and audio signal digitally. The only difference is that Display port cables has a lock system like iPods or Zune USB connectors to lock the cable securely, and has a button that you press to unlock it. Also, Display port has no royalty fees, meaning cheaper cables and cheaper to put in systems and devices. Display port standard is more focused on computer while HDMI is focused on Home theaters systems (when you have several companies doing extra huge money on every other company that wants to put HDMI in their devices or make cables, and having people demanding HDMI and nothing else, it's hard to compete, to a level where for example Dell, a very strong supported for Display Port, has to put HDMI on their laptop sold for "Home" market, else no one will buy them.. even though you can attach an adapter to it to convert Display Port to HDMI. HDMI everyone looses Display port, everyone wins.
Again, thanks for the pictures! In looking at the comparisons, it looks like the U2410 is a full frame behind the CRT, or roughly 30ms? That would make a difference for online multiplayer FPS (like CSS or COD or L4d) being a frame behind. But then again, it would have a lot to do with the choke on the server and what the in/outs were. I'm still on the fence here, I guess I'm gonna have to google this a lot now. Thanks GoodBytes for the awesome help and answers. +rep sir!
When I order from small business I got free shipping and a sound bar. I didn't even ask for a HDMI cable but they threw it in anyways
It won't affect your FPS games. 1 frame is nothing... in fact most streaming videos (youtube) and audio chat that you do (ie: XBox Live, Skype) has a great amount of frames lost as it uses UDP protocol. No one complains about it. But, if you must, the monitor has "game" mode, which pretty much forgets all about color accuracy, and provides much faster response rate (down to about 14ms average) In normal mode, 30ms for a IPS panel is very good. TN panels are about 7-25ms (depending on the model and if it tries to do some color accuracy or not (as you guessed it, color accuracy cost time)). Additional note: If you see the review of TFT central.. I can say they got a faulty screen or something. I have no backlit bleeding as you saw form my pictures, even at max brightness. And the colors are way better calibrated than what they claim. What they claim based on their graph is basically you pink is green. It's pretty bad, and unrealistic. Additional note2: before this monitor.. I had no LCD monitor (other than my laptop.. which is the first one I got a year from today). I used to use my CRT, the one that you saw on the pictures. I did the jump for the best released to market display technology to LCD which is a big down (input lag, ghosting, response rate, color accuracy, only 1 resolution support)... and I am picky guy (recall: I had Dell ship me a new one because of a some small scratch on the stand.. I am THAT picky!). When I got my monitor, I had my phone next to me and ready to call Dell to take it back.. my expectation was very low, or at best, still use my CRT for games and my LCD for work (I really needed the extra space). It ended up, that my CRT is on the floor unplugged.. and my LCD is on my desk. I seriously DO NOT see what is all the fuzz from response time and input lag. I even played TF2 on my CRT and LCD (dual screen), and I really saw no delay. When I did the one eye per monitor (best case to see any difference) trick, to be truthful I had a hard time to notice something...it was there of course.. but hardly. And I was playing in the worst mode you can possibly play... Adobe RGB color profile.. that means it has to do extra processing to provide the best colors. Of course, that is just my view and my perspective... then again it's only TF2. Just so you know what you are buying... 'cause I don't want you to do any purchase and you end up being sad, about it, and requires you to call Dell to have them send you a pre-paid shipping label to return the LCD monitor. Here is what is said on each panel technology: - TN: very fast; can have very low input lag to at worst a low lag; inexpensive; terrible color accuracy; more chances of dead pixels at release of manufacture plant; doesn't block light well which causes backlit bleeding, only 6-bit panel; terrible view angle (160 degree's at best both horizontal and vertical); uses a color switch technique to trick the rest of the 8-bit; finally when rotated to portrait mode (vertical) text is blurry (it's because the way the liquid is managed per pixel); best for gaming among all other LCD technologies if you sit upright and your eye lock to the center of your monitor (else color degrades). - PVA: near 180 degree view in all directions; very color accurate colors; expensive; slow; large to very large input lag; starting at 8-bit and go up to 14-bit panel; no to very low backlit bleeding; perfect portrait and landscape precision; very vivid colors allows to usage of a matte film to be used. Ideal monitor for any professionals in computation art, graphic designer, photo editing, photographs, medical purpose, etc...; - IPS: in between both worlds. 8-bit panel; 178degree view in all directions; color accurate; medium price range; fast display (not very fast like TN panels), small input lag, perfect portrait and landscape precision; very vivid colors allows to usage of a matte film to be used; very little to no backlit bleeding (depends on the model). Ideal for those who enjoys colors, or who wants the best of both worlds. The HP2475W and Dell U2410 is the first IPS panel LCD, which is decently priced, comes very close to TN panels in performance without grabbing it's downside. This panel used on either monitor models, is in my opinion fantastic, I initially thought it was "too good to be true", but hey it wasn't. It's just simply the latest IPS panel technology, combined with a very fast image processor. If you want PVA world with TN panel world advantages.. you need a high-end CRT monitor, or maybe OLED display technology (maybe not first gen.. maybe 3rd or 4th is what I expectation). So, I as you can see it can be hard decision. My suggestion is if you are no FPS crazy.. assuming that their is a difference which I can't see, it's a great monitor.. But if you enjoy watching Born Ultimatum in 10 times speed to have a seizure with it's ultra fast moving camera and the type of person that blame your lack of skill on your already good enough peripherals... then this LCD is not for you. In such case any TN panel will do, as they are all pretty much the same, maybe other than the backlit light, which is important to be teh most uniform as possible due to backlit bleeding, as you don't want to see gradient everywhere, and have a matte film and frame and adjustable stand. Else have a visit to eBay for a 17inch CRT monitor (or more if you have room on your table and sturdy enough) I hope I made you think.. I prefer for you to take your time in picking the right monitor, than picking one.. which might impress you, but doesn't fulfill your needs.
Something I forgot to mention.. this monitor has a hard-coating, antistatic 3H coating film on the screen. This makes it a little harder to scratch the screen. It's not scratch proof, just harder to scratch. In result, some cleaning products which worked great for you, might leave streaks on this monitor. And if you want to view the instruction manual, as it's not provided in the box (XP/Vista/Win7 32 and 64-bit drivers are on the disk and in the box). https://support.dell.com/support/edocs/MONITORS/U2410/en/ug/index.htm
dude, you are the man, I just wish I had more rep to give you. I did a quick price check and it retails for about 4800SEK here, which is roughly 680usd, which is higher than the prices I'm finding for the same monitor in the US, but that's how it goes. I was ready to spend 6000sek, so I guess I'm just saving money now eh?
In Canada th monitor is 750$ Canadian... which is 750$ USD give or take a few dollars. You can try to call Dell Small Business and negotiate a nice price (doesn't work? end the conversation and try again with someone else). That is what I did with my laptop, and I got something really impressive, so I am sure they do something for you. Alternatively, I suggest to bookmark the page of the monitor, and check it EVERY day for specials... you might fall like what I had, a 1 day only special.
