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New Hampshire out-laws beer-bellys...

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Malvolio, 9 Feb 2006.

  1. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    DURHAM, N.H. -- The alcohol that got Julia Zukerman into trouble with the law wasn't in her hand or in the front seat of her car. In fact, she wasn't drinking or driving -- just walking -- when a police officer told her to "blow a kiss in my face" and smelled her breath for booze.

    The alcohol they were interested in was already inside her body.

    That's the way the law works now in New Hampshire, where minors can be arrested for what is colloquially called "internal possession" of alcohol, to the point of being intoxicated. In a break with legal tradition, an underage person with drinks in his or her system often faces the same charge as one with a drink in hand.

    Similar statutes are now on the books in a handful of other states. Together, they've taken the campaign against underage drinking to a place it has rarely been before: down the gullet and into the bloodstream of teenage imbibers. But they have also spawned criticism from some legal scholars, who say the laws are pushing the definition of a real possession charge.



    So, if you're underage and consume any reasonable amount of alcohol, you can get arrested for possession? Sounds like fun ;)


    I wonder if you can get charged for money laundering if you accidentally forget your wallet in your pants and put them through a wash...
     
  2. geek1017

    geek1017 What's a Dremel?

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    afaik it has been like this for a long time.
    In my town at least a cop doesn't need anything but suspician to breathalize you.
    I think smelling alcohol on a person's breath is good enough reason really.
    And if it is a minor and that person is out walking around being drunk, then it sounds like MIP to me.
    Had loads of friends in high school get at least the ticket for MIP or taken by police car to their homes for talks with their parents.
    But then I didn't drink until I was 21 and am usually responsible enough.
     
  3. Matkubicki

    Matkubicki What's a Dremel?

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    I think thats just wrong, what if the perszon had been drinking at home with their parents or something and then had just gone to the shops and happened to pass a polic officer?

    As a matter of interest when can you drink in America? Are you allowed to drink with a meal with your parents in a restaurant or at home?

    I first drank beer with my parents when i was around 8, first got drunk at 13 on wine at a wine tasting night (again with my parents), first bought alcohol at 16 with a meal for me and my girlfriend and now since being 18 have gone out for social drinks a few times a week with people from Uni. Would this be unusual in America?
     
  4. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Not at all! Drinking - period - isn't allowed under 21 (lower in some states if I remember correctly), no matter if the parents allow it or not (infact I read a while ago about a case where a mother/father let their child drink (not a 5 year old either, we're talking about a 16-17 year old) and the child was taken away and put in a foster home or something, I don't remember the details).
     
  5. Matkubicki

    Matkubicki What's a Dremel?

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    :jawdrop: I knew they couldn’t buy it from a shop or anything till 21 but not at home either, that’s just absurd. I thought America was all about freedom etc.

    I would suggest that stronger controls on alcohol lead to more problems with it later in life and issues with 16-21 year olds drinking illegally and getting themselves into more trouble. In the UK we have some serious issues with underage drinkers and young people drinking too much on Friday and Saturday night, but in the rest of Europe where they take an even more relaxed view than us they have far less of a problem. In France from around 10 its not uncommon to get wine with school dinners.
     
  6. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Yes, but that is not just about letting children drink some alcohol when they are young to let them get used to the idea. In those mainland European countries you are thinking of, the cultural attitude to alcohol is totally different. Alcoholic drinks are appreciated for their taste (which is why there is such a big fuss about wine tasting, for instance), and in a social context of relaxation. There may be traditions around locally produced drinks, tied to local cultural identity.

    In the UK people mostly drink alcohol with the explicit intention to get drunk and boisterous. Taste or tradition doesn't come into it. In Japan people drink to get drunk and boisterous also, but it is again very much tied up in tradition and they maintain strict boundaries around its social context that we fail to maintain here.
     
  7. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    It varies by state. In Oregon and Washington a child can drink if it is givedn to them by a parent or gaurdian. THis is how they allow the sacramental wine at church, etc etc.

    Personally i think we could accomplish more by scrapping the whole prohibition this all together. I think most people start drinking, and especially smoking, which is even dumber, for not other reason that they are told they can't do it.
     
  8. Matkubicki

    Matkubicki What's a Dremel?

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    Oh yeah i totally agree with you, but i think we'd get there by making alcohol a part of everyday life. I dont think for one second that no kids in France hang around and get drunk on the streets, but im sure its less than the UK. To change the culture in the UK it has to be seen as less of a cool thing to drink and more of a fun thing to drink if you see the difference i'm trying to imply. ie smoking isnt fun for most but it is seen as cool by many. drinking cheap cider ain't fun but its seen as cool my some
     
  9. geek1017

    geek1017 What's a Dremel?

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    well, yes, in Texas it is (maybe was) legal for kids to drink with their parents.
    I know farmboys who had been drinking with their fathers since they were 13.
    But, that still isn't out in public.
    The Kid in the article must have done something to alert the police as to her inebriation.

    Yep, kids in America do get people to buy booze for them. Out in East Texas there is a problem with high schoolers driving across the border into Louisiana where the drinking age is 18, and then driving home drunk.

    I do love the Japanese attitude towards drink.
    Beer, wine, and especially sake are perfectly acceptable beverages to go with lunch, dinner, or Karaoke.
    Shochu and wiskey are the top drink to get drunk beverages though.
    I drink more in Japan than I did back home. Lucky public transport is so nice here.
     
  10. Faind

    Faind What's a Dremel?

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    America is only about freedom from british taxes, politicians just like to a big spin on it so you don't put up a fuss because were all being double taxed. which is not only against the constitution but is why were here in the first place,
     
  11. TJK

    TJK What's a Dremel?

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    well now the age across the entire US is 21 - this group called MADD (mothers against drunk driving) lobbied and got federal highway funds withheld to all the states that didnt raise their age to 21, and so all 50 states were changed to 21.

    as for age limits - i have had like almost no alcohol and i'm 17 - yes I could have it, and it is somewhat available (many of my friends have older brothers who purchase it for them) but there is a hefty fine if you get caught. If you drive drunk, your licencse gets taken away for a long long long time.
    I dont see it as being worth it - I can wait 4 more years.
     
  12. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Minimodder

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    I believe here in KS it is legal for a person underage to have drinks with their parents. We cant order drinks on restraunts.

    L J
     
  13. xen0morph

    xen0morph Bargain wine connoisseur

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    how the hell can you get fined for drinking? if you're driving at the same time, fair enough, but...
     
  14. geek1017

    geek1017 What's a Dremel?

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    In Texas at least there are many laws about underage drinking. Here's a few:
    106.04 – Consumption of Alcohol by a Minor
    (a–b) A minor commits an offense if they consume alcohol unless they are in the visible presence of, and have the consent of their adult parent, legal guardian, or spouse.
    x
    (c) An offense under this section is punishable as provided by §106.071.x
    x
    (d) A minor who commits an offense under this section and who has been previously convicted of offenses under this section is not eligible for deferred disposition.

    106.05 Possession of Alcohol by a Minor
    (a) A minor commits an offense if they posses an alcoholic beverage.x
    x
    (b) A minor may possess an alcoholic beverage:
    • while in the course and scope of the minor’s employment if the minor is an employee of a licensee or permitted and the employment is not prohibited by this code
    • if the minor is in the visible presence of his adult parent, guardian, or spouse, or other adult to whom the minor has been committed by a court
    • if the minor is under the immediate supervision of a commissioned peace officer engaged in enforcing the provisions of this code.x
    x
    (c) An offense under this section is punishable as provided by §106.071.

    106.071 Punishment for Alcohol-Related Offense by a Minor
    (a) This section applies to an offense under §106.02, §106.025, §106.04, §106.05, or §106.07.x
    x
    (b) An offense to which this section applies is a Class C misdemeanor.x
    x
    (c–e) Punishment guidelines:
    • a fine of $250–$2,000, and/or ≤180 days in jail; and
    • community service related to alcohol misuse and/or prevention for:
    - 8–12 hours, if never convicted of a similar offense
    - 20–40 hours, if previously convicted of a similar offense
    • suspension of driver license for:
    - 30 days, if never convicted of a similar offense
    - 60 days, if the second offense
    - 180 days, if the third or more offense
     
  15. Trekari

    Trekari What's a Dremel?

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    It should be noted that unless you are under arrest, you don't have to do anything an officer asks of you regarding tests.

    Of course, then they'll just arrest you and make you do it down at the station house, but that's an entirely different argument of abuse.

    A police officer simply requesting you to do a breathalyzer however can be told no. They have no constitutional authority to demand anything of you if you aren't under arrest at the time.
     
  16. geek1017

    geek1017 What's a Dremel?

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    That's like saying that you could deny a search of your car if you get pulled over.
    They'll just hold your license and call in the K9 unit and then spend the next hour tearing your car apart.

    Sure it can be abused. But it's just how it is.

    Always say "yes sir" or "no sir" to questions and be polite.
    Best way to deal with cops and not get a ticket I've found.
     
  17. FredsFriend

    FredsFriend What's a Dremel?

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    So it's legal to drink at home with your parents but as soon as you leave the house you are guilty of posession. Some boundries that shouldn't are being crossed here, all i can say is thank the big bang i'm not in the states
     
  18. allforcarrie

    allforcarrie Banned

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    Once more reason I love Germany do much. I feel more at home hear than in the states.
     
  19. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    Freedom? We're all about idiotic laws.

    Granted, any teen that wants to get his hands on some booze can do so pretty easily (as the broken beer bottle I found up in the junior parking lot at school would indicate, along with an empty pack of smokes), but any consumption is illegal prior to your 21st birthday + 1 day. Well not so much the one day, but many places won't serve you on your 21st bday, or so I've heard. Or was that cigarettes or something... dunno.

    Here in VT, 0.02% BAC is legally intoxicated (resulting in a suspension of licence, I believe) for an <21 minor. And I think the only reason that it's not zero-tolerence is because some mouthwash and whatnot contains alcohol - .02% doesn't take a whole lot, and considering most underage kids that are drinking are doing so pretty heavily, it'll be pretty obvious.

    Granted you're not going to get police kicking in your door because you had a drink with your parents (not to be confused with that wild party), but any consumption (which naturally required you to posess it first) is illegal. Though imo, it's that attitude which causes more problems than anything else, because there's that teenage rebellion factor coming into play. Consider French culture regarding wines and whatnot, and then think about how often you hear about the police busting a housefull of wasted teens passed out on the couch over there.

    As to the original article, I don't really care, and considering the anti-underage-alcohol views of the US, I'm not the slightest bit surprised (if anything, I'm surprised it took this long). It won't stop most kids drinking any more than the drinking age does.
     
  20. Drastik

    Drastik Minimodder

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    drinking age is 21 in louisiana. i know ive lived here 20 years
     

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