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Games - the ethics issue

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by The_Pope, 6 Mar 2006.

  1. MrWillyWonka

    MrWillyWonka Chocolate computers galore!

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    Found this and if it's real, my god even football games make people go loopy!
     
  2. vts

    vts What's a Dremel?

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    Yes, we should ban football. I believe its influence to cause all problems in the uk, from bullying in schools, to chav hooligan culture.

    As for violence in games - you just need to read the warning at the start of postal.

    And how many of you have said casually that "i'll kill you" if you dont do this, that or the other.

    Besides, why actually go out and kill someone if i can do it on my pc, without any of the nasty consequences - like the other person actually dying, or prison, and stuff.

    As for classification of games, for kids, i still think its up to the parents to decide - and if they dont want their kids to paly a game its up to them, not some guy in an office in london, in the same way you wouldnt take a 5 year old to watch a 18 cert horror movie.


    EDIT:
    Movie posted above, with REAL translation.
    http://couchblogging.com/insanekidvideo.html
     
    Last edited: 12 Mar 2006
  3. Eliminos

    Eliminos What's a Dremel?

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    Well, its ebaumsworld, so by nature it's going to be a) fake and/or b) stolen from somewhere else.

    If the kid is german, why his he managing bradford city? And somehow grunts are translated into insults like 'knob cheese'. It was posted a few weeks ago somewhere else and we worked out he's playing an FPS.


    edit: http://www.break.com/index/patiencechild.html

    Music = Unreal Tournament 2004

    He actually yells "I DON'T NEED HELP!" several times.

    He clearly needs mental help ¬.¬
     
    Last edited: 7 Mar 2006
  4. Darkangel

    Darkangel What's a Dremel?

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    When your a kid you love blowing ppls heads off in games, you dont do it in real life because theres consequences... youve got to determine the age at which the player can understand the 'rights and wrongs' of what theyre doing the in the game.

    Everyones different in the life experience so its impossible to get the age rating bang on correct for every person.

    Weve got to a point where survival is boring... we earn money, we spend it.
    games are a very good way to entertaining us, banned games are 'too much' for ppls mind to take.. my m8s got a big handful of banned dvds and he enjoys them... but whos to say that hes right in the head?

    As long as your not harming anyone else then you should be able to live your life how you want... just because some prat has killed a load of ppl and is blaming it all on games, its his fault... no one else is killing ppl because of games?!?!?! why change something when its only affecting the said few, whos to say that something else would have eventually had the same effect and pushed them over the edge

    hope that made some sense
     
  5. N/A

    N/A What's a Dremel?

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    That is a VERY hard age to determine.

    I'm 17, but I got GTA3 when it just came out (my sister who's 6 years older then me) so I got it when I was 12. When I got it, I thought I understood the "rights and wrongs"....even though I didn't start going out and beating hookers or killing my neighbours, I still felt the effects.

    When my dad was driving, I was thinking "This is taking forever... why can't we just drive across the curb".... then I though "What a stupid thing to think"....or something along these lines.

    The point is, that these games don't say "kill your neigbours" they do it subconciously.... so that you're not aware you're doing something wrong... it's persepective... like smoking...(not that I've smoked) it's easy to say you should quit, but it's a lot harder to do it when you're hooked.


    looking back, I should've respected the ERSB.... thankfully, to curb my mind, my dad actually paid attention about the ERSB about Vice city... to which I still have not played... but got GTA:SA.... and now that I'm older... I no longer have that subconsious feeling to just drive over the curb, or drive on the sidewalks... hopefully a good sign.


    Again, this is where the line get's fuzzy.... should we detain possible terrorists? they haven't done anything YET..... or possible pedophilles? or what's considered harming? so are you saying we should be able to run around naked and expose ourselves to little kids like that? the whole ethics thing is fuzzy... and life is not black and white... the above was simply my experience being on the boundaries of my stay in the "fuzzy" areas of the line
     
    Last edited: 8 Mar 2006
  6. stereophonie

    stereophonie What's a Dremel?

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    I dunno I'm what you could call a hardcore gamer but quite recently I've been amusingly addicted to a small popcap game called zuma deluxe, now this only happened last week but I found myself in a daze and lost about two hours just sitting playing this game. It's only came to light now what happened. It was in the paper's when someone noticed a guy matching my description down at the pond, I was stuffing coloured balls up a frogs ass and thumping him with a fist so the balls flew out the frog's mouth and connected with matching coloured balls i had previously set up. The frog died from my erratic beating and my brother never did get his golf ball's back. So i dunno maybe games are bad for you...... or maybe these a**eholes want to stop blaming everybody and anything relating to bad behaviour and crack down on the psychology behind these people after all there has been plenty serial rapist's murderer's etc that never got any further than playing pacman and i somehow can't connect these crimes with that little yellow dude, nope not one bit. The world's a bad place and probably is gonna get worse before it get's better but bottom line is it aint games, movies, music etc that's to blame for this its the individuals themselves!

    I should learn paragraphs huh :D
     
  7. N/A

    N/A What's a Dremel?

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    so you're making the statement that games/movies/music FOR SURE do not create violence AT ALL?

    How can you say that?

    what about little kids who pretend their power rangers and act it out?.... or how do you explain ever single black guy (here in BC) dresses like gangsters from MTV? or the popularity of the TNA clothing line?

    You're saying that media has nothing to do with it? I don't believe it, the trends in clothings and style and fads that exist proves that the media do in fact cause people to change.... just like how a few years ago, none of those disco huge ass sunglasses that paris hilton wears were in style... and now they are.... and I'm pretty sure that trend started in hollywood... the people get addicted to the celebrities (proof? look at tabloids...) and they they copy them through the means of media.

    If a kid pretended to be a westler and killed another kid (it happens) the should the kid be held responsible? (I'm talking like 6-12 years old)

    clearly the criminal will hold the kid responsible, but to a lesser degree... ie. the kid is not going to be penalized as if I did the same thing... why? kids are just stupid. Their brains are scientifically proven to be still developing, and that they don't fully comprehend the situation no matter how much they say they do. So whhile I do agree individuals should take responsiblity, I still believe ERSB is usefull in preventing kids from running around and shooting people.
     
  8. Kaze22

    Kaze22 What's a Dremel?

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    In the end we're all to a certain degree a end product of social conditioning, sorry about the pretensious answer. But yes games do effect us, some times they inspire us in a positive way while other times not so positive.
    So yes games, like whore houses, strip clubs, uncles Wong's message and other social venues should have restrictions to it's audiences.
    In short the rating system helps plenty.
     
  9. stereophonie

    stereophonie What's a Dremel?

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    Very good point.

    sits down and shuts up*
     
    Last edited: 9 Mar 2006
  10. Peanut[UK]

    Peanut[UK] What's a Dremel?

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    No, the kid might not be responsible (assuming they deliberately and knowingly killed someone by re-enacting what they see on television). The parents should be held responsible. Not the media, not the schoolteachers, the parents. Any parent that isn't capable of teaching their children the difference between right and wrong, should not have had kids. Blaming the "media" is their way of not facing up to their own failings as a parent. People nowadays seem to be all too keen to place blame anywhere but at their own doorstep, regardless of the circumstances.

    I thought the article pandered to some media stereotypes that are dangerous (i.e. that games have been responsible for violent acts), which are simply untrue. The parents of the victims of the Columbine massacre sought to sue pretty much every game publisher after that horrific event. In my opinion, the fact that the two guys had access to such an array of weapons at home was the issue, not a few games of Doom. The fact that their parents failed to spot the fact they were clearly depressed and disturbed was a factor too. Games alone cannot and do not make killers. I'm not saying they can't contribute to desensitising someone. I'd go so far as to say that games don't desensitise someone, just provide some inspiration to already dangerous fantasy, that might cross over to real life (psychologists help me out on this one!).

    The problem in the US is that kids have easy access to adult material in games. There needs to be a system in place that makes it illegal for retailers to knowingly sell adult material to minors. Like we have here in the UK (as an aside, as far as I'm aware, the BBFC classification on games is voluntary - publishers request a game to be classified. The more cynical among us might even say that they seek an "18" rating to drive up sales). There also needs to be an education of the general population that "games" aren't all Pokemon and SuperMario, and contain very adult themes. Most parents that bought little Jonny GTA:SA for Xmas wouldn't dream of letting the same child watch a movie like "Boyz in da hood", or "Colors", or any other realistic violent movie. At least I hope they wouldn't.
     
  11. whisperwolf

    whisperwolf What's a Dremel?

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    I’m continually amazed by the number of adults, some with kids some without, that still see games as for kids, irrespective of the content. Games should be covered by the same restrictions as movies. And to avoid even more cases of the hot coffee incident the ratings of games need to be given to an independent classification board, the BBFC for instance in the UK, and really a similar body needs to be set up in the USA. Its all very well to say the industry will self regulate, but the industry will continue to push the boundaries and with out independent regulations trouble will continue to seep though. To my mind children are influenced by everything around them, books, movies, games and real life. And hence restrictions are put in place till they are mature enough to cope with making their own decisions. For adults however you should be more than capable of determining right from wrong, irrespective of out side influences. You make your own decisions and you live with the consequences.
     
  12. webbyman

    webbyman Hax.

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    :waah:

    all i can say is that this would have helped a few weeks ago for an AS computing presentation :hehe:
     
  13. Nottheking

    Nottheking What's a Dremel?

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    Well, I must say, that things do actually look a little different here over in America than you might think. The ESRB ratings are not legally binding, though there have been a number of attempts to do something along those lines. (in fact, it was recently National news when a certain law in my state, banning all sales of particularly violent games, was struct down in court)

    The thing is, any sort of regulation that goes about must abide by the hierarchy of the US laws; precendence and supremacy as far as laws go are key elements, and some might recognize similar or identical elements that have somewhat taken shape in the EU body itself. (for instance, I'm fairly certain most of you know that EU courts can overturn any law of any member state)

    Hence, this is why you see no specific laws; The second right listed in the "Bill of Rights" in the United States constitution is the "freedom of speech," (the first being the "freedom of religeon") and it's been zealosly guarded. Hence there is a zero possibility of any such law passing, unless the writers somehow manage to make it parse with the U.S. Bill of Rights.

    However, this is not to say that there is no weight whatsoever; some feel that "self-governance" is impossible, but there have been many cases of seeing it in the US; stores do actually take a fairly pro-active stance on censorship here. Most supermarket chains opt to carry few or no M-rated (17+) games whatsoever, generally sticking to only a handful, but onyl reluctantly carrying even those. And actual dedicated game stores tend to have a policy of restricting sales; it's not done stringently, but the clerks are trained to check the ID's of young-looking shoppers, and refuse to sell M-rated games to those 16 and younger.

    So in reality, things aren't quite what some of you have been led to believe.

    On another note, I personally draw distinctions that vary a bit from what any rating company says; I see some games are particularly disturbing, and even though they have the same violence, blood, and gore as other games that are rated identically, they might actually be a bit different. One example that pops to mind might be Indigo Prophecy. (most of you would know it as Fahrenheit) It just seems to me that the themes presented in there are far less suitable for children than other M-rated games, such as, say, Far Cry or Half-Life2.

    On another note, I'm still puzzled over the rating granted for The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. The descriptors used by the ESRB are as follows:
    • Blood and Gore
    • Language
    • Sexual Themes
    • Use of Alcohol
    • Violence
    All of them are COMPLETELY applicable, and not simply a case of spotting a place where that element was tossed in once. Yet, in spite of this, the game was rated "T". (13+) This just puzzles me from the logical point of view, thought I suspect that other things may have come into play with the rating for it, that had nothing to do with the content of the game itself.
     
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