News Sony loses Dual Shock patent case

erm.... so what exactly is the technology? please dont say they're sueing them for putting a counter balanced motor in the controller....

 

i can see it being rather funny if sony have to pull ps2 of their shelves
at the moment i'd say they deserve it.

i don't realy like sony much lately, they seem to be turning into a baddie especially with all the copyright cr*p, personally i think it's a joke, along with the fact my freind may have to own the game to play it on his own ps3, where does it stop?

they seem to have something stuck up their a$$? bit too cocky? not realy giving what the consumer wants anymore... ps3 july 2008 anyone?

edit: i forgot to mention i had a freind who use to litterally kill the ps2 dual shock controllers by hitting them throwning them and generally trying to rip them appart, the dual shock always went spacco, along with the start and select buttons in the middle the controllers sometimes opened up competly

 

Dualshock 2 R.I.P.

my favorite controller ever i will miss it, i never liked the gamecubs because it had alot of buttons that were weirdly shaped and unforteble to use, and i found the xbox controller too big and unconfertable, but the 360 controller is almost perfect but i would take a dual shock over it

 

I suspect the technology in question is also the chips/code that "decode" the rumble effects, otherwise they would just pull the controllers and not the consoles as well, right?

 

Microsoft will be very pleased with themselves

 

THe technology that is under the lime light right now is the force feedback technology like I mentioned before. If you want a force feedback controller or device, you get a license from Immersion. They invented the force feedback with motors technology. Now if the PS2 controller shocked you instead, they wouldn't need a license from Immersion.

 

So what exactly are they going to do now? And doe's this mean that the second-hand price will go up? Supply & Demand an all.

 

I'm holding tight to my controllers and console now then.

 

All i have to say is sucks for em'

 

I think that it has to do with the driver - how it communicates etc.

 

sounds like orc mischief to me...

 

A quick search on the patents website throws up a few patents awarded to Immersion that deal with force feedback. I don't pretend to understand the technical details of them, but they cover things like: using actuators to create feedback. So if Sony are using actuators, then I guess they're infringing.

I think a number of patents are absurd, but it's nice to see the big boys getting done over every now and then

 

Here's some info about the patents in question

I had a hunt on Google and managed to track down the patents that are at the centre of this decision. Contrary to what has been posted previously, they are not solely to do with the feedback system of the controller.

The patents are:

US Patent No. 6,275,213
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...0&s1=6275213.WKU.&OS=PN/6275213&RS=PN/6275213

and

US Patent No. 6,424,333
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...0&s1=6424333.WKU.&OS=PN/6424333&RS=PN/6424333

Sorry if the links don't work, but if you got to the www.uspto.gov website, you should be able to find the "full text patent search" page and find those two patents.

The first patent protects little more than a rotatable, eccentric mass which can be rotated to cause vibration under the control of a signal received from a signal processor to "produce a variable tactile sensation in relation to said ... signal as a result of varying the frequency and amplitude of said vibration"

The second patent has a little bit more information in it. It includes an analog sensor in the controller and a signal processor separate from the host computer (ie not within the playstation) which is "operative to communicate with said host computer, wherein said signal processor sends information to said host computer including sensor data from said analog sensor, and wherein said signal processor controls said rotating-mass actuator to produce said tactile sensation by generating said activating signal in response to received variable data from said host computer."

Now, I'm a European Patent Attorney and can tell you that I would consider both of these patents to be very weak and badly written and am surprised they were upheld. The thing is, if they were strong patents, Sony wouldn't have fought the case in court but would have given up early and taken a licence. It's a sad fact that only the weak patents get litigated, which gives a bad impression of my profession to the public since they assume that all patents are this bad or "obvious-looking". The other problem is that (in the US at least) patent cases are heard before a jury who may have no technical training whatsoever and may not understand what the patents actually mean. The jury also would not know what makes a "good patent". This makes it very difficult to be sure of winning your case if you take it to court.

You'll have to trust me that there are some good, strong and well-deserved patents out there. It's just that nobody ever hears about them.

There is also a European patent application, which has been pending since 1998, but the European Patent Office have not yet granted Immersion a patent. It will be interesting to see what happens in Europe...

 

Is everyone getting force feedback confused with rumble again? AFAIK, I've never heard of a control pad offering resistance on its analogue sticks like a force feedback steering wheel. The PS2 controller certainly doesn't do that and from what I've played on a demo pod, the 360 pad doesn't either. I'd like to be proved wrong though, coz that tech sounds good

I can't believe there's so many deluded people out there thinking that the PS2 pad is good The sticks are enormous and inaccurate, the pressure sensitive buttons require too much force to use properly and the shape of it is extremely uncomfortable. The button layout also sucks. I know Nintendo invented it but that has to be their worst contribution to controller design ever. The Megadrive/Saturn pads with ABC, XYZ and shoulder buttons were perfect. However, the Wavebird is the best controller out there by a mile.

Hopefully, this is the beginning of the end for Sony

 

People from teh US will just buy them from Mexico, where they get their Vicodin and Valium.

hehe

 

When the first designs of the PS3 contorller came out (some time ago) i read an artical saying that the redesign was due to a Patent expiring (SP)?? i'll see if i can fid it again.

i think the reason this is all happening is that sony has been a big threat in japan to ninty over the last few years, and ninty has lost alot of the market share to them. the reason ninty didnt bother too much with micro$oft was they arnt that big in japan. when the Xbox360 was launched in japan ninty release a silver game cube at the same time, the game cube sold nearly 5:1 over the Xbox360.

im a sony and ninty fan and i think its funny but if they own the patent then they are in rights to seek this aproval and financial reimbursement for any profits sony has made on someone elses design.

 

Ha Ha Ha, sony pulling all ps2's off the shelves will be something to see.

I own a ps2 and X Box. dual shock controllers suck, they work well for very few games, tony hawks for one. they are the worst controller ever for driving games, u'r thumb is sore after less than an hours play especially when the controller gets a bit worn and u gotta try and break the horrendous touch sensitive buttons in order for them to work. U find urself on half revs cos u aint puching the x button hard enough.

For first person shooters X Box contollers rule, especially on something like halo 2 with dual weapons, dual triggers are a must.

The N64 controllers were good when new, when the analogue stick still worked or hadn't been snapped off by u'r clumsy brother. Anyone else played jetforce jemeni with a controller in each hand, one controlling the character, other controlling that odd hovering ball above u'r head?

 

Bring back the pads with just the knob on the top - go pong!

But more seriously, Sony's got a problem if they're caught out here - lots and lots of money going into licences... they can't bring the PS2 pad off the market surely.

Good to see a patent lawyer in here - do you think any action would require retroactive payment? That'd be the worst!

 

Wow, that is pretty funny. I couldn't stand the Dual Shock controller it was about as ergonomic as an NES controller with two prongs and some analog sticks. Every fricken time I use the damned thing I get blisters on my thumbs. The X360 controller is by far better.

 

I do not like Sony, but this just does not seem right, they are either stupid and ripped off a poor technology, or the technology describes what’s been going on for years before Sony ever even dreamt they would be a big player in the console market. The ps2 controller is not what I would use to describe an example of force feedback technology, maybe an example of vibrate the controller every time anything happens on screen, but not force feedback.