Hello, I just moved into a new place. The Internet worked great for a day or two but the signal from the modem is barely readable now. It just got worse over time so I am going to bug my ISP to send me a replacement. On the chance that a new one doesn't fix the problem, I may get a wireless router. But I want one with a good strong signal. Can someone suggest a really good one? Price isn't really an issue with this. I want it to work. Second option, is to run a line though the vents (concrete walls and no phone jacks upstairs) and just have an every day router upstairs. But I don’t know about how easy it would be to run a line though the vents and how safe it would be. Anyone ever hear of a cat 5 cable melting or catching fire? And I guess a third option would be those things that you plug into the electrical system. But how well do they work? Any advice would be welcome! Chris
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/networking/ The networking section here at Bit-Tech has a couple nice high end options up front and even a review for a power outlet network adapter. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833156249 I've had this Trendnet on my wish list for a while. Draft N and gigabit at a decent price.
No, and certainly not without some outside source of heat. Bundles of PoE cables might get warm, but that's about it. Most of the jackets I've seen have temperature tolerances printed on them. But if you're really worried you can get Cat5e with sheath for external environments.. And that's a lot tougher. Really though, this can probably be solved with a good router and (perhaps) an aerial upgrade. The WRT54GL's are a favourite of many for a lot of reasons; one of which is the ubiquity of high-gain aerials for them, not to mention the fact that you can tweak the output power in DD-WRT/Tomato. That said, they are getting a bit long in the tooth... If you can live without 802.11n, however, I don't see why you should need anything else.
Try an EnGenius EOC-2610. It'll punch through concrete no problem at all. http://www.engeniustech.com/datacom/products/details.aspx?id=246 You can find it for under $80 easy. It's got a whopping 600mW of power, built in 10dB directional antenna, even comes with a POE adapter at no extra charge. I think the linksys unit above puts out 28mW by default? Up to 84mW or more when hacked? This would be, oh, 20 times more powerful. This is serious, commercial grade wireless equipment. We use them in mesh networks and such, a bit overkill for what you need, but for under $80? Why not? We first started testing these about 4 months ago. We had planned to cover a 35,000sq/ft building with 3 of these. Installed the first one in the center of the building thinking it would cover everything to one side (with the antenna being directional), and found out that one little unit covered the entire building quite easily. This is a pretty large structure, the entire building just underwent a $5.4 million renovation and the interior walls have metal framing. Thought it would be hard as heck to punch through that metal, but it was a piece of cake with this puppy. Now I have all my technicians carry one in the car at all times, sure is an easy way to solve problems like this. We've found the powerline networking to be quite iffy. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it will work for a few weeks or months, then have problems. Other times no signal gets through at all. Usually it's only a problem in larger buildings using 3-phase power instead of 1-phase (which is used in most single family homes), but I've run into places in San Francisco where we thought they were all on the same power lines (one meter), but it just couldn't get the job done. There are some serious pro-level power line network devices, like the GeekLink system from Telkonet, but expect to pay $1000+. Extremely robust power-line networking, can jack right into a building's 3-phase electricity (by an electrician!), I think they can have up to 256 nodes per network, military grade encryption, etc. Fun stuff. (Hope the answer to your question wasn't too long, but that should cover all the bases) ;]
If you did your research, you'd see that the default is 28mW from the standard firmware, and up to 250mW with hacked firmware. In my experience, I've never required any more. I wouldn't want to run it at that anyway. Not only is it illegal in the UK (minor details) it's actually gonna give you a goddamn headache if you're anywhere near it. 600mW? Give me a break; literally. Sitting in a wireless lab with all of the access points (Cisco models, about 8 of them) running at the default of about 5mW power is enough to make my head hurt after an hour. Why the hell would you begin suggesting commercial grade wireless equipment, which is obviously not for use in the home, to home users? The power ratings alone (as above) aren't healthy and why bother when it really is over-kill? For the record; the 54GL in my house runs at 28mW, with the standard aerials and it still provides just enough signal to cover the extremities of a 4-bedroom terraced house. I could double that and it'd be more than fine. 600mW? I feel for your customers.
Wow, calm down man. Do you do this for a living? (Biting people's heads off I mean?) Well, actually I did my research. That's why I said 28mW by default, and I even mentioned hacking it for more power. But you felt the need to repeat that I guess. Shrug. But many people aren't up for hacking their router, voiding it's warranty, and going without support. Just because something is commercial grade does not mean it's unsuited for home use. There are many, many examples of people using commercial stoves at home, refrigerators, real theater equipment in the home theater, speakers, amps, preamps, etc. Heck, I use a pair of Seagate Cheetah 15k RPM SAS hard drives in my computer, they're originally intended for commercial use, but they work spectacularly for my needs. I feel sorry for you if a bunch of routers running at 5mW gives you a headache. Most people don't suffer from headaches from wireless routers at 5mW, maybe you're just overly sensitive? And who said he had to use it at the full output of 600mW? I certainly didn't. He can crank it down to whatever level he'd like just by using the built in configuration. Just because a car can do 150mph doesn't mean we run it down the street at wide open throttle, that's just common sense. 'Most' people driving 'most' cars won't ever see more than 90mph in the US. So does that mean we all want tiny 3 cyl engines that can barely make it up to freeway speeds? Will that 3 cyl running at 90% of it's ability last longer, or would a 300hp V6 only using 20% of it's ability last longer? I don't see why you're so offended that I actually made another suggestion that's workable. I didn't say the Linksys was junk, or useless, or that it wouldn't work, or that you were an idiot for suggesting it. I simply suggested another option. In my professional opinion, I think the EnGenius unit might be a better choice, here's a few reasons why: A> The linksys is made to put out 28mW, hacking it to push it's output higher would likely mean a shorter life for the device than a unit that was made to put out 600mW continually, but is being run at far less than that. The Linksys is being overloaded, the EnGenius would be underloaded. (See engine example above). B> A router when hacked usually won't be well supported by the manufacturer. While it might work great for you as an expert, but we don't know if this gentleman is comfortable with hacking a router, voiding it's warranty, and going completely without support. The EnGenius unit would still be fully supported, warrantied, and it's made to put out whatever power level his specific situation needs. C> Commercial grade is an advantage here. The unit is built to withstand outdoor abuse. Ever see someone spill a drink on their computer? I've seen customers do this to all sorts of equipment. Will he ever spill a drink on his router? I'd think not, but it sure doesn't hurt to have a far more robust device if there's no downside. D> It comes with a POE injector. This to me seemed a bit silly until I actually started using them in installs, now I love having that as a free option. It gives far greater flexibility in router placement as you can just run a single, standard cat5 to the device, and place it almost anywhere. Running an extension cord over even 25' gets a bit ugly. Who needs another thick cord running around the house? E> The EnGenius unit comes with a whole lot more flexibility right out of the box, without being hacked. Features I bet he doesn't need right now, but might down the road if he say, moves into another place. It sounds like the Linksys option could also work, but there's no reason to try and start a flame war just because I have a different opinion. Chill out man, it's not worth it getting all worked up and angry over little things in life.
thanks for the input guys. im sick as a dog right now though. will have to go over all of that when i am feeling better.
Oh noes, someone's disagreed with you! You really didn't: "OMG REALLY BIG NUMBERS!!" Do you have shares in this company or something? You don't know the upper limits of the 54GL's radio to begin with. Funny that it's all hyperbole. You almost primarily 'sold' him the AP based on the fact that its maximum output was far in excess of any consumer-grade AP. All the while, forgetting how completely inappropriate it would be. More-over, have you ever installed DD-WRT on a 54GL? I actually don't know what could be easier than downloading a file, and flashing it with the built-in firmware upgrade process. If someone can't upgrade their router, I don't know how you would expect them to configure commercial grade APs. Yes, because I'm going to copy the Cinema's audio setup for a room 1/10th the size... Regarding the SAS drives, I hope you didn't pay too much to use them in your workstation. (Linked to a staffer's post, because you're unlikely to take my word for it.) Bottom line: there's no point buying commercial-grade equipment when there are plenty of consumer-grade solutions, more suited to the situation at hand. I made myself sound like a dodgy hypochondriac there, but in reality, the technicians in the lab will specifically ask the entire group to turn the radios down to around 1-2mW (it's only a small room) when working. And that's because a lot of people in that room walk out with headaches after a few hours. Wow, and after 100mW you're violating the FCC regulations. More-over, you're not going to need it in a house! The DD-WRT support forums are awash with people asking about this. The general consensus is that running <80mW is perfectly acceptable for the unit, and more than enough for the needs of most. As a personal testament, a few years back a pal and I were running a 54GSv4 at 251mW because that was the highest it got to. Back then we didn't really know what the difference meant other than 'higher is better'. Did it burn out? Not at all. In fact, AFAIK, it still works to this day. They're obscenely hardy little units. I can't argue with that; the warranty on the EnGenius unit will specifically tolerate the abuse you can give it. But, as above, you don't need to 'abuse' an AP to gain acceptable performance from it... So why worry? There's plenty of community support for DD-WRT, and there's not been a case that I can see, where Linksys have explicitly denied returning a router for a genuine hardware fault simply because it was running some 3rd-party firmware. They don't spontaneously burst into flames or anything. No downside, sure. But there's not much of an upside really. How often would someone drink around their access point? Fantastic idea. Nice to have but, err, houses have plenty of plug sockets (outlets). AP placement just isn't that important at home. As far as I'm concerned, if I buy a 54GL; it was released to run some other type of firmware, and it will. The upgrade process is just as risky as flashing the Linksys firmware. It's tried, test and relied on by individuals and companies alike. Your EnGenius unit sounds great, but I can't still cannot understand how you can justify recommending it in such a situation. To use your own car analogies against you: why buy a 4x4 (SUV) for the school run? Because on that small trip, each day, your kids will be safer? Because you can fit more kids in? Common sense would be to use a five-seater car like everyone else.. Perfectly sufficient. Cheap. Again, the hyperbole comments really annoy me. Cracking a nut with a sledgehammer for the sake of it really isn't a sensible solution, either. Angry, I am not. Concerned with your consulting abilities, I am.
I've been looking at the WRT54GL and the tomato firmware. It looks like it will do the trick. The aerial antennas (EnGenius EOC-2610) are a little bit overkill I think. We have something similar here at work. Amazing little devices. the range is good for a few kilometers. Apparently the WRT54GL is going to be discontinued. Shame really. But I guess it is getting old. Anyway, thanks for all the information that was given.
That's not hyperbole. Hyperbole is saying something like: These books weigh a ton! I was recommending it based on real world advantages, such as it's robustness, flexibility, warranty, support, and similar price. What's easier than downloading a file and flashing firmware? Using a simple web interface and just clicking on the options you want that are already built in. You keep talking like you know everything, yet you've never even seen, much less used, one of these routers. This is a perfect example of you again not having a clue what you're talking about. Someone else makes a very broad, general statement without anything remotely close to proof, you take it as gospel. You then apply this to my situation, which you know absolutely nothing about. You have no idea what applications I run at home or what I use my computer for, yet you think you're an expert. I bought the drives, tested them in my own situation and needs against home drives, and they're worth every penny. Again, the commercial grade unit is more suited as it has the features already built in, under warranty, with support, and it's built to do what you've hacked the other unit to do. Well I guess that's proof then! These devices are unhealthy, dangerous, and should be banned! Forget the thousands of hours of scientific testing under controlled circumstances the device makers and FCC have done. I'm sure your real world example applies to everyone else far more accurately. Wow, I don't think FCC cares much about what people do in their own homes in Canada. As for what people need in a house, you certainly don't know about everyone's house. You have no idea what size it is, how many floors it has, if it's built say into the side of a mountain in San Francisco (yes, I've seen this), if it's a 10,000sq-ft house, etc. We work with thousands of clients, and provide solutions for them where the consumer grade equipment doesn't always cut the mustard. If I've got a choice between selling them a device without warranty, with hacked firmware, with no factory support whatsoever, over a device that's made to do what we're actually trying to do with it. Guess what, I'll go with the proper device for the situation. Yeah, that'll really fly: 'Uh, sure sir, I'm sure the Linksys unit will be fine! Some git and his pal ran it at 251mW once and he says it's obscenely hardy! It must be true!' (A year later) 'Sorry it burned out after a year, just tell Linksys to replace it for free. WHAT?!? They won't?!? Just because we hacked it and forced it to put out power levels it wasn't made for? They think that's OUR FAULT? Wow, I guess you're screwed, I sold you a hacked device that was never intended to work in your situation when I could have sold you one for the same price that was made to do what you needed, damn I feel stupid'. It's the same thing here. What happens if this gent comes back in a year with problems? Dropping packets, headaches, random reboots, etc. It's a lot tougher to track down and/or send in for warranty. But I'm sure you've never had an electronic device like this Linksys fail down the road, right? The simple fact is they're quite within their rights to deny warranty coverage when you're hacking the device, they can consider that abuse. Again, we've seen it happen. Let me guess, you don't have children? Or your children have never spilled anything? The simple fact is the outdoor waterproof router mounted safely away from the computer would be more likely to survive long term than a non-waterproof Linksys sitting on a desk somewhere within easy reach of children. Very simple. Flexibility. Warranty. Using a device for it's intended purpose. In this case the vehicle magically transforms into whatever you need when you need it. If you happen to have twins, instead of taking a can-opener to the roof and putting a camper shell on, you just click a switch and your small car gains two more seats. Same cost. Factory support. Warrantied. Or yeah, go ahead and stick your kids in ghetto rigged trailer or camper shell. Brilliant. I don't know if that works in the UK, but when parents try idiotic things like that here we tend to throw them in jail. They actually did something remotely similar to that on Top Gear, they wound up setting a car wash on fire! Funny, because you're the one making completely unfounded claims. (No, that's not hyperbole). Don't concern yourself with our customers. We've been in this business for over 25 years now. We help out all sorts of people, from the smallest apartment to fortune 500 companies. In the middle of a nasty recession and high unemployment, we're going out there and hiring new technicians and growing. We don't have a billion dollar advertising budget, we get the bulk of our business through referrals from happy customers. I could list hundreds of examples, but here's just one: Did you see the movie Milk last year? Sean Penn? We did 100% of the computer support for their entire operation while they were in San Francisco. I still can't believe that he didn't thank us specifically when he won the Academy Award. Either way, the original poster is going with the Linksys. Not a bad choice at all. Good luck with it. =] (No, I won't waste any more time responding to you, this thread is supposed to be about him, and a router for him, not about you or me).
The more I think about it, holy cripes that's a scary thought. One bursting into flames sounds about impossible to me, but it wouldn't be the first time an electronic device like this did something like that, especially when driven well outside it's intended capabilities. Makes me glad we carry a $5,000,000 umbrella policy on top of general liability in case something like this did happen. It also makes me very wary of installing a hacked router at all like that in any situation, residential or commercial. I can just see the lawsuit on that one: "Tech company sued for willful gross negligence when a large single family home in timbucktoo burns down. The company installed a Linksys router and deliberately hacked it to put out more power than it was designed to. The end user's child (now deceased) left their favorite blanket on top of the router by accident. The additional heat put out by running the device far outside it's specifications caused the router to spontaneously burst into flame, killing the toddler while she slept and burning the family house down. The corporate lawyer for Linksys points the finger back at the offending tech company, saying 'We specifically designed safeguards into the firmware so that the router couldn't be overdriven. These guys deliberately and willfully circumvented these safeguards and caused this failure. We are 100% not at fault, our router design is 100% safe as tested by the FCC'. .... Call me overly cautious, but: No, instead I think we'll stick with the unit that was designed to do what they need. Something tested and safe. I believe my customers appreciate caution over recklessness. Why take any risk at all, however minimal, when a safe solution exists for about the same price?? The above example will never happen, but as a professional it would be negligent of me to allow my employees or myself to install a device in this fashion. Don't think I could live with myself if my installs caused the death of someone, or even great injury. But I guess you don't have a problem with that? You say that Linksys pushing 251mW is still out there functioning at that power output? Wow.
Your attitude towards the problem was my main concern. Hyperbole is a form of literal exaggeration: you were quoting numbers like a dodgy car dealer. "Oh hmm, 20 times better?" I'm sure the EnGenius model is great (haven't I said this?) but I haven't used it, no. My point has been that based on the facts you started the thread with, I can't help but question your reasoning and approach to a relatively simple situation. If I had a professional installation to do, yeah, I'm sure I'd take a look at it... Especially since given the Cisco kit I've had to deal with has been possibly one of the most soul-crushing experiences of my life. Give me DD-WRT any day of the week. I know exactly what I'm talking about: you're not the only one with professional experience, mate. I had just seen that post though, and it just summed up what I wanted to say - the link took up less space and (I was right to suggest this) you'd never have listened to what I had to say on the subject. It did make me laugh at the time: it seemed as if you were Mr. Must Have The Best of Everything beforehand, but if you've a reason for the SAS drives then fair doos. Did I say any of that, or did you imply it? The latter. I'm actually the first person to shout at people for flat-out proclaiming that the 2.4Ghz ISM band is bad for your health. I know it doesn't cause problems when there isn't some idiot playing with the transmit power options, but the fact is, this happens to a room full of people. Every week. Given the fact that they're mucking about with a lot of wireless equipment, the combined power could be anywhere from 100-600mW (particularly if they all still think it'll improve their signal) which is a lot compared to the <40mW your average home user's AP runs at. The warranty's only a year. So anything outside that; it doesn't matter one bit. And a single year ain't that long in the life of an AP. Secondly, the above (condensed) quote is all an example of your approach to the problem: the OP is just one man, he's no company. He's not a 'client' with anal-retentive budgeting and the potential to screw you over in court if something goes wrong. There's no SLA, no contractual agreement, and you don't need to worry down to the last detail over liability. This would be completely founded if he were talking about a commercial installation: I'd be bringing up warranties too. But for us enthusiasts sitting at home, who the hell needs commercial-grade equipment? I'm sure it works well, but there's a horse for each and every course: IMO, this wasn't the right approach. That's laughably hypercritical, to tell you the truth. Have you used DD-WRT on one of these devices? Or were you too worried about it bursting into flames, babies dying, the world ending, cockroaches taking over...? If my professional indemnity insurance isn't involved, then there's no requirement to care past the point of infinity... I know from personal experience (and many will agree) that the 54GL's are bloody awesome in more ways than one. And that's good enough for when you're here, talking on a forum. Funnily enough, he now lives in Canada. Seems to like it there! The router was used for at least two years after that, before he moved across the icy pond. It was well outside of its warranty period by that point, so what more could you ask for? Ahh, if only.
Yes, been there, done that, who cares. There's no compelling reason for me to try and deploy it with customers along with the disadvantages already mentioned again and again (reliability, support, warranty, etc). I've played with all sorts of fun firmware in my days, sveasoft, coova (in a paid hotspot), DD-WRT, tomato, etc. DD-WRT even works on the EnGenius unit, he can load it on that too, but why void your warranty for no reason? It just makes no sense. You don't care as long as it doesn't hit your insurance? Why does that not surprise me? Either way, the horse is DEAD. Quit beating it.
