They are human, they are breathing therefore they are a potential danger. mankind is potentially the most deadly animal on the planet. The trick is working out exactly how much potential the animal in front of you has.
I'm not a fan of killing anyone in anything other than a "kill or be killed" situation. However, preventing them taking my **** with blunt, non lethal items around the house? Absolutely. If they were in the garden then I'd tell them to naff off in less than charming English and probably place a call to the police, but otherwise do nothing. Once they're in my house, phone the police and stop them taking my stuff. If they don't run when confronted, then sure. I'll hit them with the nearest heavy object. If they run off clutching my stuff? Police'll be here soon, and stuff's stuff. That's what insurance is for. Though, if they don't run when confronted by me in my usual "just woken up, haven't visited drawers" state, then well. I think they have bigger problems than being arrested for burglary, and possibly smacked in the head with someting heavy.
For myself, I'd cripple, not kill, and I was referring to my daughters being enough to kill over, not the stuff. I was unclear. I have a 12 year old and a 13 year old. Were someone to threaten them, well, you know, I can get really inventive. For robbery, break a leg and hold them by it till the cops get there. Let them explain being caught by the handicapped guy.
People seem to be misunderstanding burglars, they don't want trouble, they just want to nick your stuff and get out. If they see you, they will run. If you are unlucky enough to get the psycopath, odds are you won't get the chance to shoot first. It saddens me to see so little value attached to human life, even if it is the life of a burglar.
I love how many ninja's there are here at bit, that are able to easily incapacitate a burgular that they have unexpectedly found in their home, and could do so without having having to resort to killing them, which would also be fairly simple. It's also fascinating how some people think that burgulars are loving creatures that deserve to be loved unconditionally, since they would never dream to harm anyone that catches them in the act. Burgulars love witnesses. I must stop being sarcastic now or i will have to slap myself in the face
I've more than a bit of training in Yagyu ShinKage-Ryu Kenjutsu as well as Krav Maga. I can only speak for myself. However, between that and the item I mentioned above, yes, I think I could. Even with only one good arm.
It's interesting that a lot of people seem to be prepared to kill when in all likelyhood (in the UK at least) you are going to end up with at least some jail time, if not quite a lot. I think you would have to be nuts to think this is worth it. You probably won't be seeing the property that you just killed some one for, for quite a few years. With the very exceptional cases of acidentally killing an opponent in a fight, or having to kill someone who is clearly attempting to kill you or your family, you're guilty of murder. It would be totally over the top in pretty much any other circumstances. I don't think that an attitude of "well if they break in, it's tough luck" is very good either. They have broken a law anyway and there are systems for dealing with these things; it's not down to you to decide the punishment. To my mind, a 'shoot first, ask questions later' policy is also totally unacceptable. People are running a real risk of becoming more a of a criminal than the person who just broke in! I'm definitely not saying people shouldn't react to someone breaking into their home, but deliberately killing someone for that is totally out of order, with the exception of the circumstances stated above. No person has the right (if that's the correct term) to kill another; we have a justice system for this sort of thing, and it is not (and should not) be suddenly waivered for trespassers.
First of all let me say I'm seriously unimpressed that someone (a mod?) added the option "People have a right to protect their property but the action should be in proportion to the threat/crime" instead of just stating that as their opinion. The middle ground is such a safe place that no one on either side of this argument has a problem with voting that way, you've sucked out the interest from what is essentially a partisan debatable opinion to that terrible south-park like mantra "The answer is somewhere in the middle!" "Law is never on the victims side" This is something I'm trying to get a look at; so its your belief that if you shot someone dead, they wouldn't be the victim? A dead chav is not a service to society, it actually takes away from society, whether you agree with their lives or not. There is no shock that chavs/gangs/criminals in the vast majority come from economically disadvantaged homes. Your argument is coming close to amounting at "Murder the poor". It is a somewhat loaded term I do concede that, however the central argument of "is your property worth more than a human life" is not. If you want to argue on schematics it'd be more like "manslaughter" than anything but don't be fooled it is still taking someone's life. I'm not really asking about specific situations and very very specifically I don't want a legal analysis of what the law says you can do, simply your moral opinion on the central topic. Humans are also the most precious animal on the planet, our conciousness and ability to understand the world on this level is so unprecidented who is to say who should take that away.
To paraphrase: "If someone comes into my house I will bloody well kill them, go to the kitchen, take a knife, place it in their hand and say they came at me with it. There is NO reason to believe that an intruder in my house has anything other than malicious intent and there's no sense in taking the risk in trying to discern otherwise." And I agree.
This is one area where I depart from my usually very placid notions - if someone breaks into mine or anyone elses home, they deserve everything they get. As it is, having never been in a fight or thrown a punch in my life, I'd actually do bugger all, but if I had the neccessary skills then yes. As far as I can see, if someone is prepared to trespass onto my property or that of my family, and take posessions that are not lawfully theirs, they're perfectly capable of anything else, and therefore pose a threat and loose any of the little right to life or protection they had before hand. I think capital punishment is an awful idea and that people should be made to suffer and reflect on what they have done (prison). But given that situation, IF the law was on my side and IF I had the skills to defend myself and my home, I wouldn't worry about whether I was incapacitating them or killing them. On the other hand if they escape and get caught later - prison all the way... RwD
Do you not think that there are minimum and maximum court sentances for breaking and entering or robbery for a reason? Despite that society already has a consensus on what the punishment is for a given crime, you think it's ok for people to undermine the law and do it their own way? I don't mean to pick on you particularly RinSewand A fair few of the posts seem to share your opinion. ... except that you would have to make your decision about whether to kill before that point, so it's a bit late now. Would you only support prison for the ones that have escaped your murderous wrath? hehe.
I think a lot of people here are looking at it too coldly. It's all too easy to judge or think in hindsight (like in court) or in "pre-sight". The moment itself, though, is a lot different. You're woken up by noise. Your wife and kids are asleep. You go look, someone is in your house with at least the malicious intent of stealing your stuff (it's a bad start, eh). You confront him. He doesn't run. Any decision you make won't be thought through very well, whatever that decision may be. I have read no one saying that they'd shoot someone who was running away, with or without their property. Most people in this thread who have said they'd injure or kill a burglar aren't talking about the loss of property but about the potential harm this burglar may do to you, or worse, your wife/kids. The potential of this burglar (or these burglars) to cause harm is impossible to prove; before, during, or after the fact. But it's there, and in the half a second you have to decide what to do when the burglar's noticed you, that potential may play a big part in your split-second, adrenaline-and-fear-fueled decision.
Don't break into my house. Really. Don't. A new law has been passed in Hungary last month; Preventive self defense can no longer be punished as long as it does not result in death. You also no longer have to make sure that your defense is in proportion with the threat. Again as long as it's non-lethal defense. That's what i'd go by but to be honest if law allowed me to use lethal force to defend myself, my family and my property i would not hesitate.
I think in the end as imperium says it is the half second decision. I have had a random person bust into my room while I was sleeping. The first thing I did was grab my rifle from under the bed, point it at them, and yell at them to put their hands on their head. Thankfully my room mate came in and defused the situation (room mate got drunk with some friends and they came back to my place where his friend busted into my room). But if you have a very good, almost concrete, mentality on what you will do if X,Y, or Z happens, then you will be surprised as to how well you stick to it under intense pressure/ adrenaline.
Can't say I'll wake up, make a passing remark, change my pants and leave. I will resort to some force to stop potential intruder, I mean, i do own my property right? And it's not like he is allowed to take any of my things or even waltz into my house without consent. That said, California has more gun control laws than anything..>_> Makes it quite hard to actually defend yourself though, but My aim would be to shoot to incapacitate not to kill.
I don't care what is seen as right or wrong, moral or immoral. All I care about is the safety of my family and myself. If I found someone in my house, I would hit them with the biggest and heaviest thing I could find, repeatedly! If it came to the choice of letting a burglar escape, or confronting them, I would always confront them. Let one get away with it and you instantly become a victim. There is the danger that I could get hurt or killed but I would rather face things head on than hide under the quilt, feel my arse nipping and quiver like a kid. That's not to say that I wouldn't be bricking it if I did catch someone in my house though Because I would!! I wouldn't leave a knife laying around, or any other weapon, as I have children and they have a knack of finding things they shouldn't. I do have several things that would suitably knock the crap out of a burglar should the need arise, in the form of some ornaments etc. I also wouldn't have a gun in the house if it was legal here, because I believe they cause more problems by being in the house than solving them.
