Hi All I have a real problem. My Asus Maximus Formula has been in RMA since September 09, coz, the NB leaked and corroded the RAM and PCi-E Slot. So I am using another Asus board to keep my sanity. My problem is this. I want 1366 i7, but that's going to have to wait a while, I always get the best I can so I know I can OC without many problems. This leaves me without a decent motherboard but a full liquid cooled DDR2 rig I have a Q6600 G0, that I have previously got 4,2Ghz stable, (Passed CPC's Bench tester,( just) with my liquid cooled rig. I know I am moving on to DDR3 with i7, so here is my problem Do I buy a 775 DDR3 board and DDR3 RAM or do I buy another DDR2 board. I have sat here for ages re-reading all my Custom Pc mags from Jan 2008 and many forums, hoping to glean some info, but I can't find the answer I am looking for. Will I get a better OC using DDR3 over DDR2 on a Q6600? Assuming I stay with DDR2, CPC recommends the Tpower 45, but that's only got PCi-E 16 + 8 (or is it 8 + 8) not 16 + 16 lanes. I’m running 2 liquid cooled 3870x2 in Crossfire. Secondly I would want to liquid cool the NB & possibly the SB, but that means removing the heat-sink that is connected to the boards power supply capacitors, so how can I LC those as I can’t find anyone that sells the coolers for them. Finally the Bios seems to be a complete nightmare compared with the likes of Asus. Or do I buy a Maximus Formula again? I won’t buy the Formula II as it has the same problems as the Tpower, it would be a step backwards. If I go for DDR3, is the Maximus Extreme still the best 775 DDR3 out there? Even thought it’s nearly 2 years old. So any advice would be really welcomed. Thank you in advance.
First thing I will say is that buying the most expensive CPU does not guarantee good overclocking performance. The overclocking performance is a characteristic of each individual CPU. DDR3 does not give any performance gain on 775 boards. I believe the FSB is the bottleneck for memory performance. For socket 775, a X48 will provide 16 PCIe lanes each to one or two graphics cards, a P45 will provide 16 PCIe lanes to one or 8 PCIe lanes each to two graphics cards. Both the X48 and P45 provide PCIe 2.0. However TechPowerUp have done some testing that indicate 8 lanes of PCIe 2.0 are perfectly adequate to operate a graphics card. Having said that I believe a X48 will outperform a P45 with 2 graphics cards.
Hi tonpal Thanks for the info. Where does that leave the X38? The only difference between the X38 and the X48 is the official registration of 1600hz, or am I wrong? I am not buying the fastest CPU, for the mo, I already have a Q6600 G0 and am happy with it in my rig, I will buy a 1366 920 or higher in a few months time, but I want to wait until the new 6 core Gulftown come out to see the price drop in the i7. If I stumble upon a QX then I'll grab that for even better OC. The X38 in my Maximus Formula was fine 16 +16 lanes and PCIe 2.0, but that was two years old, and I could just get 4.2 out of the Q6600, I need to get another board now, as mine is going to be with Asus for a very long time, it looks like it could get legal. So it will be used as evidence. So, no hope of getting it back soon. And no hope of sponsorship either. What I do (amongst other things) is design Liquid cooled PC Rigs. The rig I built that got a Q6600 to 4.2 can run a Q6600 at 4ghz + my 3870x2's for hours and has no fans running whilst playing dual screen COD and NFS-Shift. It’s all to do with thermal dynamics. At the mo I am stuck with an Asus P5W DH Deluxe, it’s useless for Over clocking, in NFS-Shift it crashes. I can't get the cross fire working right on it either. So I need a board that can run flat out for hours summer or winter, that will provide a ton of heat, to prove that my rigs are up to the job. Hence I am still using two liquid cooled 3870x2 in Crossfire. These provide huge amounts of heat. The board will need to be liquid cooled CPU, NB, Ram, Power circuits an the SB, if I can get access to it. The board will be housed in my new rig that has 4 heat exchangers provided by the owner of "Wet and Chilly Chips" liquid cooling company of the early 90's (Way ahead of its time) who works closely with me on the design side. He was the first guy to get a P4 Netburst to 7 Gigs. So I think he know a bit about thermal dynamics. So I am not a fly by night guy. I have sponsorship from 2 companies, to do with the manufacture of the Rigs themselves, but not the internal components. I just need a couple of boards to test with, plus I like to game and OC as well. I am not rich yet as I have invested everything I have into my company. If I could get sponsorship on the components, that would help a lot. All help is welcome.
i would suggest the evga 790i ultra sli for a 775 board and for a 1366 i would go with the evga classified
From what I have read, there is no point to DDR3 on a socket 775 board - you are better off keeping your DDR2 ram. If you are looking at getting another S775 board now, something P45 or X48 based would be your best bet - something Nvida based like the EVGA board mentioned about would be pointless as you are running Crossfire which they can't do. Unless I mis-understood your post and you aren't running crossfire, in which case I still wouldn't get one as they don't overclock as well as P45 boards
As far as I know that is correct. Not sure that you can still buy X38 boards now though. Google tells me the Asus P5W DH Deluxe is based on the i975X chipset. The i975X was the mainstay of Intel performance boards for an age so it must have been overclockable. I am not an overclocker but there must be someone on Bit-Tech with experience at overclocking these boards if you wanted to persevere with it. If you didn't your choice these days is really between a X48 and a P45. The X48 will perform better with crossfire but the difference isn't huge so I would suggest keeping your mind open to P45 boards. There doesn't seem to be many X48 and P45 boards available for sale these days. I guess LGA1156 and LGA1366 have killed off the demand for expensive LGA775 boards. The Gigabyte GA-EP45T-DS3R doesn't appear to have a heatpipe to the cooler for the regulators but I haven't been able to track one down for sale.
If you dont have much cash, why just hunting some second hand board for now and save money for i7 board. You sound like you really want to buy a nice board to get your Q6600 to 4.2Ghz so just simply buy a P45 like Biostar TPOWER but ike I said just save money and go for i7.
Hi All Thank you for all your comments, all is appreciated. I am trying to sort things out with Asus amicably, so that I can try and get the sponsorship I need to help complete these LC'd Rigs. I have had 18 Asus boards over the last 8 years. In the mean time my company has sapped most of my spare cash, so it’s likely to be a used board. I need a pair of them, one for each rig. The Asus P5W DH Deluxe, has a NB that overheats at the slightest hint of a decent game, even with a fan stuck on it. Its my media center board and will continue to be so once I find a board. I’m thinking that X38 is the way to go and another Asus Maximus Formula SE with the LC block is what I need. As I know what it’s capable of. Plus the LCD Poster is invaluable when Ocing. Then there is the on board switches inc the Cmos, again invaluable. So here is my shopping list DDR2 or 3 Liquid cooled NB, or capable of being LC'd PCi-E 2 16 + 16 lanes On board Switches (hopefully) Poster LED/LCD I have spent the weekend instead of working looking at all the specs of all the P45, X38 and X48 boards. Two Abit boards flicked my switch. ABIT IX38 GT3, I found one on eBay for sale but nothing on it on the Abit site, except a bios update from 2008 Abit IX38 QuadGT its on the Abit site but again the last bios update was 2008, in fact if you click on all of their boards, is seem like they gave up on all their boards in 2008 which is extremely worrying. In fact the last time all of their websites all over the world were last updated in 2008 . There is no mention of the i5 and i7 boards at all. I used to be a real Abit fan, but I would be scared to buy one now. Or am I looking in the wrong place? Moving on to Gigabyte, hours of hunting through their webby and you realise that they do not have anything that could be liquid cooled, or switches or anything that looks like its aimed for the Over clocker or hard core gamer, correct me if I am wrong. Foxconn seem to have only one x38 and one x48, the Blackops, now that looks interesting. I have read good things about the Blackops, any thoughts? I just cant put my finger on it but I just don’t like the Biostar TPower I45 5.x, couple of reasons, they have no UK website for starters, its heat pipe no digital power circuits 16 + 8 lanes, again I have heard good things about it. Its been Custom Pc top DDR2 board for a year now, but crossfire and their bios seems to be a constant problem, so I have read. So here is the list I have come up with. DDR2 Biostar TPower I45 5.x Abit IX38 QuadGT ABIT IX38 GT3 Foxconn X38A Asus Maximus Formula SE Asus Maximus Formula Asus Maximus II Formula Asus Rampage Formula Asus P5Q Deluxe Asus P5Q Premium Asus P5Q-E DDR3 Abit IX48 GT3 Foxconn BLACKOPS Asus Maximus Extreme Asus Rampage Extreme So what DDR2 and DDR3 board do you think would suit my needs, the only one I can vouch for is the Maximus Formula SE, which was the mutt’s nuts, but is there anything that is better. Just to sing the praises of the Maximus, it did get me to no 40 in CPC’s benchmarking, that’s when it blew up on me. The NB chucked its fluid over it. It’s the clamps that Asus provides, if you use anything else, it void the warranty (You've been warned), so no jubilee clips otherwise you had it. That’s why I am probably going to court over it. It cost me two sets of OCZ Flex 9600 and two 3870x2 in the process, over £1500 at the time and that doesn’t include the board itself. All I want from them is a replacement board. And they are fighting like hell. I think I've gone on long enough, so I'll let you have your say. Be cruel and tell me I'm an idiot, all I want is to carry on where Asus left me.
Your comments about Gigabyte surprised me a bit. I would have ranked Gigabyte, Asus, MSI and possibly DFI as the better boards for overclocking. Abit have stopped selling retail motherboards which would explain why thier site had not been updated. What I have read about Foxconn and Biostar hasn't really impressed me. They both seem to be budget manufacturers. If you are struggling for cash I would stick with DDR2 for the moment. The jump to DDR3 could probably wait until you are ready to move to a Core i7 board. Make sure the board you get has chunky 12v regulation circuitry.
Abit have gone bust iirc which is why they aren't updating anything I would go for a DDR2 x48 board, they are newer and generally better than x38 and after all, if you can get something newer you may as well
If I were choose from your list, Asus Rampage Extreme is my 1st choice. Adn don't be bother with Abit because you have no support or warranty... Like Cupboard post they gone bust for a while.
Wouldn't touch a 790i with a barge poll taped to another barge poll, and wouldn't bother with EVGA classified unless you were running LN2. Most performance X58s for less money will do the same job - it only really comes into its own in extreme conditions. Get a cheaper DDR2 775 board - I've never tested a good DDR3 775, and no one updates them any more for newer memory anyway. Rampage Extreme is quite nice but you don't get high memory speeds from X48 - it does much better at low latency CL6 at 1600 for example. The Max II Formula is a fantastic and beautiful board however, if you can still find one - the only one (or maybe one or two) we've given an excellence award to.
And if you want to buy a car in addition to this, you should definately stick to Lamborghini. Everything else is crrrap.
I agree on the 790i sentiment -- it's crap on a stick, rolled around in crap batter, and deep fried in crap, then sold to consumers at $300+ X38/48 kicks 790i around with ease. As for the Classified being just for LN2? I'd say no. The point of it costing an arm and a leg is well heeded, but those who can overlook that I can see some minor benefits to the EVGA Classified over a standard X58 flavor: - More reliable by-and-by then Asus (I'm on my second P6T). - EATX form factor: With a Corsair Obsidian or similar large case (Lian-Li PC-80) this is a cable management dream. - EATX form factor: Multi-GPU is a breeze (literally) plus the onboard NF200 controller means lots and lots of GPU's for folding/CUDA - The P6W7 is at the same price point anyway. - Sexy black on red design ... I mean COME ON Gigabyte, *Pink* DIMM slots? Obviously minor things and in the grand scheme of things Gigabyte and Asus have better all-round offerings, but I'd still grab a Classified if I had the cash
Thanks for all your comments guys, its all appreciated. Can I ask a question, or rather can you confirm or un-confim this statement. A 775 CPU, cant send enough data to the PIE-e so that is why X48 and P45 are only 16+8 lanes and not 16 + 16 like the X38. Is this correct? Or have I got it all wrong. If I am correct, then I should not be fussing over 16 + 16, is that correct? Hypothetically speaking, What would the approx % of OC points difference do you recon between 16+16 and 16+8, I ask, as when you get to the very edge of a GPU's capabilities, all helps to get those last few points. This applies to all of the components. I have a huge bin of blown up stock. To tonpal With regards to my gigabyte statement, I found info on their water cooling and a name for it, same with the on board switches, but there was no way to search their site to see what boards have it, except open up every single page and expand the picture and actually stare at it. Plus again the naming of their board is mind bending, just like nVidias. When I did find it it was on the i7 boards, that suggests to me that they have just fathomed out there are guys like us about who would sell their arm for a decent bit of kit. But if I am wrong, point me in the right direction. When you say chunky 12v regulation circuit, can you be a bit more precise? What would you class as the bare minimum? To Cupboard I stopped looking at X48 because of the 16 + 8 lanes thingy, if you can answer my question at the top, that would be great To Jasio I am not and never will be an nVidia fan, the only thing I can think of that nVidia do better than AMD, is folding and being able to set up your telly through Svid cable, and that's it, there numbering system defies belief, flogging high end cards with naff old GPU's on them proclaiming that's its all new and the dogs bollox, apart from that they are green and black and that does not go with orange..lol.. I looked at the EVGA Classified and it seems to have no more oomph that the Foxconn Blackops, which comes with the LN2 spout thing and at nearly half the price, oh and no pink anywhere either. Has any one got any thoughts about the Foxconn Blackops? To Bindibadgi To Thanh55 Whats the difference between the Maximus and the Rampage? I know that the Formula is DDR2 and the Extreme is DDR3, but what else? The max formula II? is it as good as the Max Formula I Can it be LC'd as it looks like heat pipe city, plus its gone backwars to 16+8 lanes. I like the Max Rampage One of the reasons why I want a pre LC'd board, is that I have seen the chips being ripped off the board, because of the strength of the gunk they use, all theses heat pipes are great unless you are serious about Oc'. then you need liquid. My new rig will hold at least 8 liters of Fezer 1, £9 a liter, ouch, 4 pumps (if it needs them), 4 heat exchangers, 2 3870x2 all LC'd (To produce heat) and the only fan designed into it is for back up only, as it it my rig that I am using, is silent even whilst gaming (If you forget the fact that Im using a P5w with an overheating NB). I have all these here parts ready and waiting I just need the board, that can be LC'd. As to the rigs I design and build, I get paid very little for them in comparison to the amount of RnD and effort I put in. But when my client sits with me from basic drawing, through to the finished CAD work, within a couple of months having the rig in their hands is a sight to behold. Especially when they can game in silence. It makes it all worth it. Again sorry for the essay.
X48 is 16+16 just a die shrink "apparently" from x38, but the two still preform about same. I went from a P5E3 deluxe to a Premium ie X38 to X48 after a bad bios flash the premium seemed a better all around board and would clock a little further but nothing to write home about. This board can be fully water cooled and can be got for a bargain now. Both x38 and x48 can do 16+16 or 16+8+8 http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/11/intel_x48_chipset_preview/x48-1b.jpg
Hi all. Just bought a Foxconn Blackops, the price was too good to be true. Does anyone have a Blackops on liquid? Now I need some DDR3 Ram. But which ones, I am a huge fan of the OCZ Flex as I had 2 pairs of 9200, that I cracked right up to 1329Mhz on Fezer 1 (Orange obviously), Since then I've blown them up, so I have four LC jackets to wrap round some ram, but that's the question, what ram? Any suggestions? JJ
Blackops here as a benchrig. Brilliant overclocker qnd reliable board! As for ddr3, the highest divider you ge on the blackops is 1:4 so for 400fsb you get 1600mhz DDR3. Now I bench budget chips ie e5200 so my fsb is 200. That means the fastest the ram will run is 800mhz until I overclock so I went with a 1600mhz kit. Your q6600 runs 266 so you can get 1066 from the word go. Can you get a 400fsb or higher with it?? If not then there's no need for faster ram. If so get an 1866/2000 MHz kit. Ocz reaper or blade is good stuff. Andy
Andy your a star, that was the easiest explanation on the planet. I have the G0 Q6600. Here are a couple of reslts I had with it Rated FSB CPU-Z 1840.2 Bus Speed CPU-Z 460.1 Ram Freq CPU-Z 613.4 (1226.8 bios) Ram Ratio 3:4 Strap Auto FSB 475*9 Stable with 1266 on the ram then the NB pissed all over the Maximus Formula, since then I have been fighting with Asus. I recon I could have got better had I not sprung a leak. So the next step is to get a faster CPU, like the Q9650 with 1333, but if I was going to do that I might as well start again on i7, unless I get one dirt cheap, like the Blackops. I'm running reaper at the mo, no real problems, but I haven't OC'd them as I have this crappy P5W DH, from my media center. I have heard some good news about Geil? So all suggestions welcomed, it will be this week I buy if all goes well
Doing a bit of research and now I am really confused. I seem to have a choice of voltages, 1.55v, 1.60v, 1.65v, 1.90v and 2.0v I know that 1.55 to 1.65 is for i7 due to the Volt limits in the cpu, but can I use them on 775,? I doubt that I'd be able to ramp up the volts to 2.0 though, or would I? Then we have the Latencies, is lower better, I'm getting lost here. GeIL PC3-17000 2133MHz C9 ULTRA GU34GB2133C9DC CAS: 9-9-9-28 Working Voltage 1.65V GeIL PC3-16000 2000MHz C9 ULTRA GU34GB2000C9DC CAS: 9-9-9-28 Working Voltage 1.65V GeIL PC3-16000 2000MHz C8 ULTRA GU32GB2000C8DC CAS: 8-8-8-28 Working Voltage 1.9V GeIL PC3-16000 2000MHz C8 ULTRA GU34GB2000C8DC CAS: 8-8-8-28 Working Voltage 2.0V GeIL PC3-15200 1900MHz C9 ULTRA GU32GB1900C9DC CAS: 9-9-9-28 Working Voltage 1.9V GeIL PC3-15200 1900MHz C9 ULTRA GU34GB1900C9DC CAS: 8-8-8-28 Working Voltage 2.0V GeIL PC3-14400 1800MHz C8 ULTRA GU32GB1800C8DC CAS: 8-8-8-? Working Voltage 1.6/1.9V* GeIL PC3-14400 1800MHz C7 ULTRA GU32GB1800C7DC CAS: 7-7-7-? Working Voltage 1.9V GeIL PC3-14400 1800MHz C9 ULTRA GB32GB1800C9DC CAS: 9-9-9-? Working Voltage 1.6V And that's just GeIL, so what is best to uses on a Quad 775, cas 7 or 8 or 9 I can get my hands on some GeIL GU34GB2133C9DCA PC3-17000 for a reasonable amount, but they are 1.65v If you pop over to OCZ's site http://memoryselector.cnetchannel.c...lass=6569&manufacturer_id=741&model_id=682632 Their memory configurator offers 1333Hz @ CL, 6, 8 & 9 @ 1.5v to 2.0v for the Blackops, but I need faster ram than that, at least 1800 Then over to Kingston on their memory configurator http://www.ec.kingston.com/ecom/con...KOPS+Motherboard&distributor=0&submit1=Search This time I get 1066 & 1333 CL9 @1.5v Now Corsair http://www.corsair.com/configurator/product_results.aspx?id=673047#other_modules At least they offer 1600/12800 CL6, 8, 9 @1.65 to 1.8v Now Crucial. No Blackops in their configurator, so a hunt shows the max (as far as I can see) they have is 1600 @1.65 G Skill No Blackops in their configurato either. 19200 CL9 @ 1.65v 18400 CL8 & CL9 @ 1.65v 17600 CL7, CL8 & CL9 @ 1.65v 17066 CL8 & CL9 @ 1.65v 16000 CL6, CL7, CL8 & CL9 @ 1.65v & 16000 CL9 @ 1.60v 15000 CL9 @ 1.60v 14400 CL7 @ 2.0v & 14400 CL8 @ 1.9v Now Team Memory. Forget it, 21 modules ??? Ok, I don't class my self as a beginner, but as I have taken a year and a half out for various reasons, you kind of forget stuff or get confused trying to remember what is what, well you do at my age. It absolutely amazes me the Memory manufactures, cant put a little bit of effort in to help us, I mean how hard would it be to put on there site an explanation of what is what and why you need it. After 4 hours of searching, I give up, I am none the wiser, 1.65v or 2.0v & what CL value for a Blackops running a Q6600 775? That is the question, I'm an Over-clocker and a gamer. I like to get the most I can out of what I have, (4.2ghz from a Q6600, that will do), hence I have blown so much up..lol I cant count how much I have spent in the last decade on high end PC stuff, just to OC it and try not to blow it up. It was so easy way back when we had just DDR2...lol Look forward to your responces JJ
