That could work out either way I guess I know someone who got Gary Lightbodys old textbook randomly handed out in school and made the mistake of announcing it to the class. The teacher took it straight back, it was probably on the bay the next day For me it's the smell
The smell of old books? I love the smell of new books! And the shiny pristine cover. I admit to having bought second copies of books so that I have one copy to read and one copy to keep on display and never touch so the spine doesn't get all cracked and wrinkled with paperbacks, and so no damage may happen to hardcovers.
I buy second hand games quite a lot. Normally when its a game I'm not too bothered about or I know will keep me busy for a week or so. I'll pay full price on games that I know will get a huge number of hours out of me. These are normally RPGs or big multiplayer games. The second hand market exists for just about every non-consumable item, why should games be exempt from this. The car market is a prime example-if people didn't buy used cars, then people wouldn't buy new cars either as people would just run them into the ground and own cars for 10+ years. In the example of games, I'm pretty sure that sales of new games would drop as there are a lot of people who will buy a new game, play it complete it, trade it in to get a discount on another new game, play it complete it etc etc. I think if the second hand market were to be removed, games companies would either have to drastically reduce the price of games, make fewer games and take fewer risks and find other ways of getting money out of game owners such as more subscriptions for the online games.
the big point of all this which is why the 2nd hand market is perfectly fine and the publishes should just quit whining is: you buy the game ITS YOURS, YOU OWN IT. if you own it you can do whatever the hell you want with it; smash it, play fisby or EVEN sell it. i dont go buy a car for £10k from a dealer and then when i decide i want to get rid of my car have to pay the dealer again for the privilege cause they lost a theoretical sale
Second hand games are something we don't have in abundance here, though we do have a few. And Yes, I see where the publishers are coming from, and I disagree with them. A second hand sale (much like a download in that way) does not translate to a new sale 1:1. People like bargains. I'd think that even if games were cheaper, people would STILL buy them second hand, as they're even cheaper then. Publishers should spend less time bithcing about things and find more ways to monetise games (like music as well). In-game ads, for example. Subscription gaming, etc. There's a billion untapped methods, and publishers just seem to comfy on their million-dollar physical media chair.
Please, don't give them any more ideas... Ads though I fully approve of, ads are everywhere in real life so Ic an't see having my immersion shattered that badly. Except when ads are put in a game that still costs as much as the games without...
You however, don't have free access to that game in most cases. If you want to play a game round a friends, you have to go round a friends to play it. It's nothing like having the game at all. With second hand sales, you're buying (in most cases) exactly the same thing as if you were buying brand new, except that the people who made the game get no money. I can see the point with comparison to other second hand sales, but it's still not exactly the same. You buy a second hand game, it's exactly the same as a new one unless the disk is scratched (which usually makes little difference unless it's severe scratching). When you buy a used car, it's completely different to a new one, all the parts have wear, the performance is reduced, and the price is significantly less than a brand new one. Popular pre-owned games from places like GAME are usually a tiny fraction under the RRP, and they give you terrible prices on the trade in value. But as far as the developers and publishers are concerned, second hand sales are just as bad as piracy (if not worse), a person gets to play usually the full version of the game and not pay a thing to the people who made it. What arguably makes it worse than piracy is someone was willing to buy the game, yet they didn't receive any money for it. Another way games markets differ from cars is a game is not an object, it is intellectual property, the price of the actual disk and stuff is a tiny fraction of the price. The box you buy is just a delivery method for the content. I do think they're making a massive fuss over it though, just like how they're making a massive fuss over piracy, but I can see where they're coming from. I do however, not like shops that offer trade ins, they price they give you is terrible, and the price they sell them at is ridiculous for popular games.
Although like the used car market people buy used games with the intention of selling them on and mightn't buy any if they couldn't. Can't feel sorry for pub's i'm afraid they're not loosing a sale, if any thing they encourage people to buy games in the knowledge that they are not worthless as soon as they leave the shop especially if you've just bought a lemon it'll have some value on eBay or go towards your trade in on your next super duper AAAAA title. As for people getting ripped of by GAME, that's the customers business, if they choose to sell privately they are free to do so. Actually much like selling a used car.
I know what you're saying. I also disagree with paying full price for a game and then hearing "this knockout is brought to you by Burger King!" - yes, Fight Night Round 3 - I am looking at you. As for ssubscription gaming - I reckon "Pay per play" or the MMO thing is turning into a feasible gaming model slowly but surely. I reckon the future looks like this: You buy an actvation code for 5 bucks, go online, then get the first hour of the game for free (the 10 day trials or whatevr you get when you buy WoW in a box, AFAIK), and after that you pay per hour you play. Or pay per month you play. or something like that. These games would run completely from the cloud. No installers, nothing but internet, some input devices and a screen required. Sad, I know... but it's the way I see it going. It's already happening with Movies.
Sounds like OnLive to me... But if you actually think about it a pay per play model would be horrible for the vast majority of games out there. MMOs work because there are constant updates and new content being provided as part of the service you're paying for. CoD or Crysis or any other mainstream game doesn't change from when you buy it, except with the occasional patch. I've spent ~100 hours playing CS:S, wouldn't have happened if I'd been paying by the hour. If OnLive are doing what I read somewhere that they would be doing (renting a game x amount of times = full purchase) I think we could have a very workable system.
Yeah - I was using "pay per play" as an example. But there's variations that could be used as well, and possibly more successfully. It just needs a bit of innovation and some people to drive it.
This is not true. Game developers are not nessisarly losing sales because people buy second hand. If they bought second hand they clearly didnt think the game was worth the full price. If they couldnt get it second hand they may not have bought it new anyway. Developers need to reduce their prices, there is clearly a high demand for games at lower prices if people are bothering to wait for the price to half at a second hand store. if they say reduced their new prices by a third, i think a lot more people would buy new instead of waiting. Prices are just ridiculous at the moment. i dont expect to spend as much on four games as i would on a graphics card. Games are one disc and some bits of paper - each game sold is almost 100% profit. there is no reason for them to be so expensive.
The problem with saying that is the very large might. People often want the best deal they can get, thus the idea of sales and shopping around and bundle deals. Second hand sellers just happen to be the cheapest solution for those who don't mind getting a used copy. Not every person who buys a second hand game would have bought a new copy, I'll give you that, but not every second hand buyer went that route because buying new was simply out of the question. The problem I see with judging the situation is trying to remove the idea of buying second hand from the equation. Currently it's very easy to say that people who buy second hand might have never bought a retail copy because it would be too expensive, but what if the entire idea of buying second hand didn't exist? Plenty of the people you and others mention have $60 to spend on a new game, but wouldn't because they know they can get it used for $30. A retail copy is not at all impossible, the option just seems ridiculous when compared to other possibilities so people say they wouldn't. But if we start playing with "If" it can change a bit. "If" there was no such thing as second hand sales I envision far more people saying that $60 is entirely possible, even if they would scoff at such prices in the current world. That applies to piracy as well. Plenty of pirates will claim (in an attempt to calm their consciences?) that they would never buy the game anyway, yet is that entirely true? If the idea of piracy simply didn't exist I also forsee that a lot of pirates would be getting out their wallets and buying real copies. The desire to play a game is always there in every gamer (elsewise they wouldn't even be getting the game, obviously), piracy and second hand selling just make it easier to for people to fullfil their desires. Jumping off that horse, you're most likely right about lowering prices improving new game sales. I say "most likely" because of the pirates mentioned above. Who knows how many of those righteous people sticking it to the man by not paying $60 would actually stop pirating if games were $20. It's a huge risk that's probably a large factor in keeping publishers from trying such a thing. Such a price drop will probably never come without huge DRM placed on all new games. I think a lot of gamers would agree that restricting piracy and resale of new games would be okay if such games cost far less to buy new. Sadly, neither party seems to be giving the other much credit on the issue. We as gamers question the motives of publishers and developers and don't trust that they won't simply try to rip us off, yet they question whether we'll just abuse any slack and trust they give us. They drop the price and we continue pirating it and we've broken the trust, they restrict reselling and don't drop prices and they've broken the trust. It's a very tricky situation.
Always buy new or wait for platinum, had some second hand games through ebay and the condition of some was disgusting, not sure what conditions some people live in or how they store their discs?
I guess I'm a theiving ******* and pirate for borrowing a mates PSP and FF7 Crisis Core? I also borrowed Borderlands from the same friend a little bit after the game was released. I played through it, finished it and didn't touch the thing again. I thought the game was pretty naff and failed to maintain any decent level of fun for very long, and I'm glad I didn't pay $80 US for the thing. I buy games whenever I see them cheap. Most I've payed for a game in the past 4 years has been $20 US, which just so happened to be a new release (Call of Pripyat on steam). when developers start releasing games brand new at that price (or $30 US), I'll start buying them at release. I've bought 20 PC games since december last year through steam because they were all so cheap. I would have gone for second hand if not for them. before steam, I hardly bought any and those I did were almost exclusively second hand cause I can't afford brand new prices. I want Metro 2033, but no way in hell am I going to pay $80 US for it. if it were $30 or below, then I'd grab it, but untill then or if I can get a second hand copy, I wont be playing it. Second hand sales give people like me (who don't have a quater of a full time weeks wages to blow on a single game) a chance to play something that isn't buried at the bottom of a bargain bin from 2005. It's ridiculous that games cost $100 - $140 NZ on release where I live, where most people I know get around $600 in the hand per week for full time work. I think the car, and 'sell game to buy brand new' arguments are perfectly valid. The way I see it; if you buy a game that's an original disc, and not ripped or pirated or stolen, then thats perfectly fine.
Can you Imagine if EA were making cars? Customer: "I've just purchased my EA Legacy and when I put the key in the ignition and turn it nothing happens.." EA Support: "Have you contacted the dealer from which you purchased the car sir?" Customer: "I purchased it privately second hand" EA Support: "Ahh I see sir... What you require then is a second owner registration pack." Customer: "But I've just purchased this, I shouldn't have to pay to drive it..." EA Support: "No sir driving it is an optional feature we didn't have to include, see you can sit in it, grasp the steering wheel and turn the radio and wipers on etc, the basic functionality is there" Customer: "This is appalling! How much is it going to cost me to drive it?!" EA Support: "Probably twice as much as you paid for it second hand sir..." Sorry went off on one there.
Just to be a bit technical, when you buy a game you don't own it.. i know it sucks but you really don't own it.. you own a licence to use the game.. not the game itself.. if you buy from the store, you own the disk, the box and the little bits of paper that come with it.. you never own the software.. because if you owned the software you can do whatever you want with it, including copy it.. but you don't.. you would be hard press to show you have an equitable interest in the software except for the licence you purchase... thats why when you install, there is a part which asks you to accept the terms and conditions.. or it is also known as the end user licence agreement... so all you get is a licence.. when you buy secondhand.. it is technically illegal because you have not paid the publisher for the licence to play the game.. licences are non-transferable... make all the excuses you want.. but you didn't pay for the licence to play the game by buying second hand.. thats just the Law... it sucks but unless you want to start petitioning for governments to change it, thats how it is going to stay
