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News Molyneux: "Demos are a horrible concept"

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 1 Jul 2010.

  1. Faunus

    Faunus What's a Dremel?

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    Instead of just blindly agreeing with everyone about how Molyneaux is a (very rich) idiot, how about taking a step back:

    "It's never a good idea, because demos are usually done at the end of a game and they require an enormous amount of design talent to make a demo. The other thing is you're more likely to satisfy the curiosity of a user rather than entice them to play more," he said.

    This is much more relevant. I suggest that Molyneaux is bothered not just about user experience, but the experience of the developers / producers. Making a demo can sometimes be just as tasking as making a full product. It has it's own release schedules, it takes developer and marketing hours away from core business, and ultimately it's a product that has a very limited lifespan.

    The difference between a demo and a product that is released in episodic format is more than just what you see when you play a level.
     
  2. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    Yes, I did thank you.

    In one breath he says demos are a 'horrible concept', but in the next he says his idea of releasing (what is essentially) a demo followed by episodic content is a good idea. Whichever way you look at it, it's still a demo and it's still a hypocritical comment - the initial investment for someone who just wants to try out the game is £0 for a few hours play, whether it's called a 'demo' or 'free episode'.

    To me, all he's saying in that article is that his method of releasing games as small chunks (or 'episodes') is better than the traditional method of releasing it as one big game. He may be right, he may be wrong, but it doesn't really have anything to do with demos and it certainly doesn't prove that they are a terrible idea.

    I bought Just Cause 2 on the strength of the demo alone, without hearing or reading anything else about it. Now try and tell me demos are a bad thing for developers Molyneux.
     
  3. veato

    veato I should be working

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    I cant be arsed with an episoic release. If I want the game I want to buy it lock stock. Simples.

    I'm sure this method of releasing it in chunks to download is in no way designed to stop people buying the game pre-owned? Isnt that right Peter ;)
     
  4. Cobalt

    Cobalt What's a Dremel?

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    That says it all to me. Demos are only a good idea if you know you have a good product. If you have a bad product then letting people find out before they actually gave you any money is going to hurt your bottom line.
     
  5. blohum

    blohum What's a Dremel?

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    My thoughts exactly!
     
  6. Woodspoon

    Woodspoon What's a Dremel?

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    He also only seems to be thinking about his own particular game.
    Would Generic multi player shooter II or Online racer III really work better as episodes or as taster demos with a full game following?

    "please buy episode II of Online racer III to gain access to this section of the track"
    "to complete air strike on bunker B, please purchase episode II for Generic multi player shooter II"

    Ok maybe it wont be that bad , but the man does need to shut up.
    Demos have been around like this for ages, why?
    Because they work, people like them and they know what to expect, why mess with a winning formula.
    Blokes a twatt and should go back to the swamp he been hiding in.
     
  7. Bakes

    Bakes What's a Dremel?

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    Hm. They called them 'Episodes' because the original plan I believe was to release about one every six months, so that gamers could get their latest fix of HL2. Obviously, the plan went to pot relatively quickly.
     
  8. yakyb

    yakyb i hate the person above me

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    i only meant as a trial, before buying.

    Reviews are often misleading, what one person thinks is good others would think awful Oblivion got great reviews but i thought it was terrible.

    Videos are also incredibly misleading you can watch a 2 minute extract from a game in which all appears well then when you buy it you find there to be bugs everywhere (Stalker)


    whilst it does help towards justification i can honestly say i have never pirated a game myself, but this situation would help me understand those that do.
     
  9. fatty beef

    fatty beef State Side

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    Fable II was disapointing. It was cool until the game ended .

    Pisses me off how you get 15-20 hours of content on a 60 dollar game then they expect you to pay 5-15 for additional parts they magically finished right after / shortly after the game is released.

    Maybe people would buy more games if they had value and included a bunch of cool stuff from the start instead of bending over the people that want to invest time in a game.

    Sorry Im nostalgic for games like Baulders Gate (and 2), Neverwinter Nights, StarCraft, War Craft (rts series) even the Diablo games that took a decent amount of time to beat (at least the first time through before the only concern became item hording) and by the time you finished were more than replayable and the feeling that "i was just here" isnt much of a factor. X-Wing and Tie Fighter had some of the longest campaigns that I can remember. Wtf.

    Crystalis, and Final Fantasy on NES had more content and a better storyline than a majority of the garbage that comes out now. So dumb.

    If they were going to nickle and dime they could at least drop the price of the game down relative to the time it takes to get through it and how much crap they intend to release after.
     
  10. memeroot

    memeroot aged and experianced

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    Firstly Molyneaux is a genius and responsible for some of the best games ever released...

    secondly his principle point is that if you release a level as a demo then that takes a lot less effort than creating a specific demo.

    thirdly that releasing games in chunks is better which I agree with for the following basic reason
    If you dont complete the game you dont have to pay full price.
    think of the savings you could make on games left half completed.
     
  11. Bakes

    Bakes What's a Dremel?

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    That's still not justification in any way. If you want to try a game first hand before buying it and you don't know someone else who has it, don't buy it! Not exactly hard.
     
  12. memeroot

    memeroot aged and experianced

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    you could rent it ?
     
  13. pl155ken

    pl155ken What's a Dremel?

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    Lot of negativity here towards Molyneux.
    Is he not entitled to his opinion?
    If you don't like the look of what he does... then don't buy it.
    To say that because he's not put out a demo is a justification for piracy isn't a very good excuse.

    There wasn't a demo for Modern Warfare 2... but it sold 4.7 Million units within its 1st 24 hours.

    Not every game gets a demo... & just because there's no demo doesn't mean the game will be rubbish.

    Not sure why people mention Sin Episode 2 or HL2 Ep 3... What's that got to do with Fable 3? Sin didn't do as well as they thought... so there wasn't any more. Simple.

    HL2 Ep 1 & Ep 2 are basically stand alone releases according to Valve... Ep3 has never been announced.

    Read up people before spouting off hatred to someone who's brought out some fantastic games.
     
  14. yakyb

    yakyb i hate the person above me

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    cant rent PC games
     
  15. DbD

    DbD Minimodder

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    I suggest you read more carefully. Why did he say it was a horrible concept?

    His problem is the effort required to produce the demo is wasted. I agree - I'd much rather they spent the time polishing the game, and fixing all the bugs then producing a demo.

    His solution was to release the first chapter for free, this means they don't have to produce a custom demo - they essentially just give you the game with only one chapter unlocked. This means you still get something that looks like a demo yet the devs haven't had to spend much time producing it so could do something more useful instead.
     
  16. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    Yes, but that would only work if the game was designed from the ground up to work like that, with separate chapters. Clearly his game is, which is why it would be much easier, but most aren't.

    Besides, I've played plenty of demos which amount to nothing more than the first one or two levels of the game, which, I assume, is effectively what he is proposing with the free first chapter. I can't see how that would take too long to produce if they've already done all the work in creating those levels anyway.

    I actually respect developers a lot more these days if they actually go to the effort of releasing demos, especially if it's for open world games like JC2 where it clearly does require a fair bit of dev time to create.
     
  17. Kiytan

    Kiytan Shiny

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    Except I am willing to bet the cost (in both time and money) to make a demo are about the same as making this free chapter they are never going to charge anything for.
     
  18. DbD

    DbD Minimodder

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    Well Molyneux obviously thinks it does, and he has produced a fair few games in his time.

    Another option is the steam free weekend where you can download and play a game for free all weekend, normally combined with a sale price on the game. That works well for on-line games - I sometimes end up buying something after that even if I didn't get around to downloading the game over the weekend because all my friends bought it and are playing it so I figure it must be pretty good and want to join in.
     
  19. frontline

    frontline Punish Your Machine

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    Aren't most full games demos for the already planned and half-coded sequel anyway?
     
  20. somidiot

    somidiot Minimodder

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    Well I disagree with Molyneux, a Demo was the reason I ended up buying Tomb Raider Legend and the subsequent titles. I wonder if the fact that he's part of a successful game that he's let his head swell... I think the idea of a "free first episode" is just a fancy way of saying "here's a demo" except that if you buy the game you just pick up where you left off. Which is what a number of demo's have done in the past anyway except throwing in some of the extra mechanics like Bioshock did.
     
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