I'm in the planning stage for my next computer and have a few questions. I know most of you guys are into games and overclocking, but hopefully you'll have some advice for a low-end system too. My current computer is used for approximately 70% internet, 15% photo & graphics editing, and 15% audio and video ripping/playing. I don't play any games and don't use any 3D graphics programs. 1) I've used integrated graphics for a long time and it is fine for my needs. My current computer is an HP Slimline which was given to me by a friend who upgraded. It has integrated graphics with a VGA output (which is disabled) and a half-height Nvidia 8400 graphics card that has HDMI and DVI outputs. I have the DVI output connected to my Asus 21.5" LCD at 1920x1080, and the HDMI output connected to my Samsung LCD TV in my living room at 1920x1080. Everything works fine with this setup. Question: Can the integrated graphics in the new motherboards handle this setup (two digital outputs at 1920x1080)? I'm trying to avoid an add-on video card. I don't have a brand preference between Nvidia/ATI/Intel graphics. 2) I'd like to have two SATA hard drives in my new computer. The first one would be for normal computer use - C:/ drive for Windows, plus 1-2 partitioned drives for work spaces and general file storage. The second drive would be a large (1TB+) HD just for ripped DVD storage and would only be used a few times per week. My plan right now is to keep the second HD powered off except for when I want to stream a video to my living room LCD TV or to transfer data to/from the drive. Question: Can SATA drives be powered off while Windows is up and running? My current computer only has one SATA drive and it shows up in the "Safely Remove Hardware" taskbar option. I have never tried to "remove" the drive because it is my C:/ drive, but is there any problem with "removing" a second internal SATA drive (through the "Safely Remove Hardware" taskbar option) and powering it off - assuming there is a switch to cut power to the drive? I don't see that that would be any different than powering off an eSATA drive. Correct? 3) Right now I'm not planning on putting an SSD in the new computer. I am undecided if I am going to be using WinXP or Win7 for my OS (right now I'm planning on sticking with XP - I'm stubborn like that). I have only read up on SSD's a little bit, and I'm under the impression that they are supported better in Win7, correct? I have heard of TRIM but am really not too familiar with it. Do SSD's work good in WinXP? If anyone could point me to some good reading material about that I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Matt
Regarding point 2): In Windows 7, any drive that isn't being accessed after a certain amount of time will spin down to save power, unless you disable this. I don't know if this is supported in XP at all. However, this may swing your choice towards 7 a little more, if only for ease of use.
the "safely remove hardware" icon your seeing must be for something else. you cannot power off internally connected devices...especially your system drive...with that feature. its only for hot swappable items like USB drives and the like. under the power management tab in XP, you can tell windows to turn off hard disks (including system drives) after X amount of idle time. they will power back up automatically if needed. AFAIK, most on-board graphic chips only support one output...in which case your plan wont work. but to get two outputs (not to mention MUCH better performance than on-board) you dont have to spend an arm and a leg on a high-end graphics card. the last few generations of graphics cards would be more than sufficient to fill your needs, and you can pick one up for under $50.
Yes, with additional hardware. Such as Matrox Tripple Head 2 go. Please note that the Intel integrated graphics, even the latest, sucks terribly at multiple display. The GPU can easily get lost and you have to spend like 20min trying to play with the option to make the GPU understand the setup that you want. Moreover, expect poor video performance. It will work fine for web browsing.. but running HD video's on a dual screen setup, will push your CPU and GPU (the Intel integrated graphics uses the CPU to do almost everything). It will be OK, but don't expect a great experience. You have to see if your HP motherboard has an extra SATA port for this. Only 1 HDD per SATA port. No work around. You might need an additional PCI or PCI-E SATA card, to attach your second HDD. No it won't be powered off, only spin down (Win7 feature). If you have a eSATA port on the back of your computer (or get a PCI slot braket to convert SATA to eSATA (it's really the same thing, just the plug is of different shape (holds better), speed is identical to the SATA port you connect the cable to). Like this: http://www.overclockers.co.nz/product/cables/CB-VANPCI-B.jpg And get an external HDD enclosure with eSATA port. Vantec has a wide series of external HDD enclosures at affordable price, and they are very good. You can manually turn it on or off. Please note that eSATA feature requires to set your motherboard SATA controller to AHCI (which also support NCQ technology in your HDD). AHCI is supported in Vista/Win7. XP does not support this feature. You will get a BSOD when you turn off the HDD and try to access it (as it will still be visible, until you restart your computer - and reverse hold true.) XP does not know what SATA is. Your SATA controller is going under Safe Mode (compatibility mode. This mean that is acts like a USB drive (some controllers treats it as IDE). Hence why you see the main HDD (where the OS is), in the "Safely to Remove Hardware". If you try to eject the HDD, nothing bad will happen, Windows XP will tell you that you can't as it's being in use. For your eSATA, if you have a eSATA port on the back of your computer, that HDD will be there in "Safely Remove Hardware", which is what you want. You won't need to use "Safely Remove Hardware" under WIn7, as the HDD and communication is fast enough for Windows to perform the hole task (also it's assume that the HDD is set as a Quick Removable drive (see Device Manager > your external HDD)). Good because XP doesn't support SSD drives. It will work, but you can't used it performance enhancing features (like your current HDD, but your SSD has even more of them), and also it's life will degrade due to the inability to manage a SSD as an SSD but rather as an HDD. In addition XP will perform heavy read and write on it, due to the memory management of XP which is designed for system with 512MB of RAM or LESS. Having more, XP doesn't care, it will still act as if you are low in memory and dump everything your SSD (well wtv drive Windows is). That is one reason why Vista/7 consumes more memory, as everything is kept on your RAM as it should, and not on your HDD/SSD. Good, it's dificult to use a computer that is too fast for us. I mean all this full SATA support, power management to save power and reduce heat, 64-bit support (64-bit version), and full multi-core CPU support, and a lot more. Wow.. too fast! Not better. It IS supported. XP does not. Please note that BEFORE you install Win7, be sure to set your SATA controller in your BIOS NOT TO Compatibility mode (or also called Safe Mode, depending on your computer). If you have the option called AHCI, please set it to this. Microsoft has extensive material on all Windows 7 features. You'll have to dig it up before WIn7 was released under Microsoft Windows 7 Blog, and Engineering Windows 7 Blog. Help you get started: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx About TRIM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM Windows 7 new or improved features: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows7/products/features (add Vista features to it) The above doesn't include the underground features. As Windows 7 is based on Vista, you can read on Vista core system.
Thanks for the reply's! Much more info than I was hoping for. As I mentioned before, I was undecided on the OS. You all had good points to go to Win7 and that's probably what I should do. If I do that then I might have to rethink my hard drive plans. Instead of two hard drives I might go to one SSD for Win7 and one large hard drive for everything else. I really botched my question regarding turning off a second internal SATA hard drive. What I should have said is "would it be okay to mount an external SATA drive inside the computer". I think that would have made my comment of "removing the hard drive via the Safely Remove Hardware taskbar option then powering it off" make more sense. I think this question is irrelevant now that I am considering going to an SSD/1 HD setup. I thought about this but unfortunately my HP Slimline doesn't have an eSATA port or any free SATA ports on the motherboard. There are only two SATA ports total and no IDE ports. One SATA port is currently used for my HD, the other for my DVD burner. I do have an available PCI slot. My original plans were to build a new case for the HP because it runs extremely hot - around 72c under full load. I also wanted to put a new power supply in it because the 180w power supply whines whenever the CPU is under load and I was afraid it would die an ugly death. But after opening it up and looking around at what's available, I noticed the limited SATA connections, no IDE connections, and that the power supply/motherboard's 24-pin connection is not the standard size. So now I'm looking at putting together a new system with either a Mini ITX or Micro ATX motherboard. I'd rather put my money into a new system than upgrade an HP Slimline. That's not what I was hoping to hear. I was planning on making a half-height system with the CPU fan being the deciding factor on how high it would be. If I have to get an add-on video card, I would like to get a passively-cooled half-height model. Like Wicked_Sludge said, I've seen them for less that $50. I was just hoping the onboard graphics would suffice. And I do appreciate a good sarcasm comment! Thanks again. Matt
if your concerned with the added height of a PCI video card, why not use a PCI riser cable? this will allow you to orient the video card any direction you want..like laying flat against the motherboard.
No, height isn't the issue. I haven't even started looking at CPU's or CPU fans yet, but from what I've seen, even a small CPU fan will be as tall as a half-height video card. I was more concerned with trying to keep the number components to a minimum (ie, no add-on video card at all). Matt
The issue I believe with integrated graphics is that you can't get two digital outputs. I have an AMD chipset board with the HD 4200 integrated graphics. It has DVI, VGA, and HDMI. However, the only dual monitor combinations are DVI and VGA or DVI and HDMI. There are separate DVI and HDMI ports, but they are essentially the same port with two connectors. Just buy a cheap PCIe card and be done with it. I'm currently using a half-height passive XFX Radeon HD 5450 that I picked up for like $30. I have the DVI connected to my 1920x1080 Asus monitor, and the HDMI connected to my roommate's 1920x1080 Panasonic plasma. It works great. I've had no problems with it. I do video playback on the TV from it, and everything works fine. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0469&cm_re=xfx_hd_5450-_-14-150-469-_-Product
Funny that you mention that. I also thought that you could only use VGA/DVI or VGA/HDMI, but not DVI/HDMI at the same time. I moved my LCD TV closer to my computer (I only had a 3' HDMI cable) just so I could hook up the HDMI connection to see if both the DVI/HDMI would work at the same time. Using the Nvidia 8400 video card in the HP Slimline, both DVI & HDMI worked perfectly. Maybe its only integrated graphics that doesn't allow you to use both digital outputs? Once I saw that it worked, I ordered a generic 25' HDMI cable for $10 from Amazon (the seller was "Cmple", who isn't listed under the sellers of that product anymore). Works perfect. Matt
I think it's a specific aspect of the Radeon HD 4200 graphics (pretty much any recent AMD-chipset integrated graphics). Not sure if it occurs with Intel GMA.
thats not true btw there is no difference between an internal drive and an external drive as windows sees them it merely depends on the settings within the bios (not quite sure whether that is for the system drive also )
