1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Motors Hot hatch recommendations

Discussion in 'General' started by Archtronics, 27 Aug 2012.

  1. Redbeaver

    Redbeaver The Other Red Meat

    Joined:
    15 Feb 2006
    Posts:
    2,062
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ford Fiesta ST is coming..........

    [​IMG]


    wait....



    WHAT?

    how much is Nissan 350Z is in the UK???????????
     
  2. Zoon

    Zoon Hunting Wabbits since the 80s

    Joined:
    12 Mar 2001
    Posts:
    5,869
    Likes Received:
    809
  3. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    29
    Any reason why you want to stick to getting a hot hatch?

    For £8000, I'd get an E46 330cd msport and get the thing re-mapped. You're then talking about ~ 260-270bhp, 400+ft/lbs of torque, and still getting 50+mpg. All this through the rear wheels for some proper fun when in the mood.

    Depending on mileage, this would come in well under budget, especially if you're happy with 4 doors and go for a 330d msport instead.
     
  4. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2003
    Posts:
    23,925
    Likes Received:
    655
    Aside from the fairly hefty maintenance issues (suspension before a remap, god only knows with an engine failure of some kind) with an E46 of the appropriate vintage, I can't help but shake the lasting impression that torque isn't the be-all and end-all of enjoyment out there on the road.

    As much of a triumph of engineering as the 330d and other six-pot diesel twin-turbos (and they are magnificent), I rather prefer the feel of a petrol revving its heart out than the vicious sledgehammer.
     
  5. dead beat

    dead beat Rippin six 4 life

    Joined:
    15 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    48

    Same here, my last two cars were diesels (Golf 2.0 TDi and Audi A4 3.0 TDi). Both pulled well and were economical, but in terms of fun, they just ran out of breath too early and felt laboured in the top end.

    I love revving the nuts off the 370....
     
  6. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    29
    There'd be no issues with the suspension after a remap, especially with an msport. Whilst an engine failure would be catastrophic, there's no reason why there should be one if the remap is a sensible one (i.e. not pushed to 290+bhp like some have done). The diesel bmw engines are hugely reliable, with the only real point of failure being the turbo's, but that's the same on all turbo'd cars. My remapped 320d has done 105,000 miles and it runs super smoothly with no signs of any failure.

    Honestly, I can understand the petrol over diesel thing though. I'd personally like an E46 330i msport touring, fitted with a supercharger and full coilover kit. That would be a pretty ultimate all rounder, 350+bhp, rear wheel drive + space for bikes etc. in the back.
     
  7. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2003
    Posts:
    23,925
    Likes Received:
    655
    Checked your swirl flaps lately? (Joking.)

    Engine issues aren't necessarily going to raise their head, but like most turbo cars, particularly ones that are used as everyday hacks, chances are issues could well crop up with big numbers attached. Too many people cook their turbos, then sell them on to leave the new owner with a huge bill!

    The other problem is that the suspension on the E46 is pretty sensitive to worn bushes, balljoints etc, and the problem worsens on higher-powered models.

    For all the effort of supercharging and coilying a 330 I'd just say buy an M3 instead. :p
     
  8. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    29
    Yup, installed blanking plates a month ago :thumb:. The old swirl flaps were in tip top condition though. Gotta say I was paranoid about one letting go, and was a silly issue to have in the first place.

    Worn bushes are what they are really. My parents never replaced the bushings on their old car that did 200,000+ miles and lived down a very bumpy 1mile farm track. They were knackered, but didn't effect the car too much. New ones would have tightened everything up, sure, but it's not the end of the world if they wear. But then again, they never changed the oil either, and the engine ran smoothly it's entire life.

    It would only cost a few hundred to install powerflex bushings all round anyway and then you're done for the life of the car pretty much.

    Gotta be honest, I don't think I'd get an M3. A supercharged 330 could be bought and modified for around £10,000, + I like the idea of the sleeper look, no-one would expect an estate to be that fast. I'm a fan of this 330 touring (minus the stretched tires, orange wheels and darkened headlights), I love the comic book images sharpied onto the front bumper (although I probably shouldn't), and the orange wheels are growing on me, they certainly add a little colour to what is a very grey car otherwise:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. jamesriley94

    jamesriley94 What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    22 Jul 2012
    Posts:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    That actually looks like an Aston from the front
     
  10. Ripitup121

    Ripitup121 MMMMMMm watercooling....

    Joined:
    18 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    244
    Likes Received:
    9
    Being realistic i would say get hold of a nice clean VW from someone selling through a owners club, you know it will have been taken care of and chances are there will be a few nice suttle touches done to it to make it a fun drive.
     
  11. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    62
    I had thought of a BMW three series but I envision myself having that type of car in my 30s so I want something small and speedy.

    Also I prefer petrol I know there's little difference in performance these days but it's just not the same behind the wheel.

    Currently looking for a Mk2 Clio on nearby but there isn't much around so might have to look for a car on finance instead.

    That new fiesta does look good when's if out ?
     
  12. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2003
    Posts:
    23,925
    Likes Received:
    655
    If you fancy a BMW, but don't quite want the new model yet, how about an E30 325i M-sport? A minty on of those will set you back £6-7k, keep on top of the maintenance (not massive bills, I hasten to add) and you'll sell it for what you paid for it!

    Have you had a look on the owners forums for a nearby Mk.2? Where are you located?
     
  13. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,555
    Likes Received:
    62
    Chester area near the border with north Wales, looked at the Chester owners club so far, there are a couple of nice mk3 cup versions but very few full fat mk2.

    Ah I meant I want a hatch back size car, bmw is a tad bigger than what I'm looking for a back road blaster.
     
  14. RevDarny

    RevDarny Minimodder

    Joined:
    27 Oct 2011
    Posts:
    360
    Likes Received:
    14
    I can recommend an EP3 mine is currently on 125000 miles and gets abused on a regular basis. The engine and gear box are still going strong. The gear box in particular is the best box fitted to a hot hatch. If you go for an EP3 type r look out for the 30th Aniversary and Premier versions. These have decent a decent spec and recaros fitted as standard, though sadly none of the EP3's have a slip diff fitted as standard.

    With the money you have I would also consider a DC2 or a DC5, though the DC2 is the better car but likes 99 octane fuel only.

    Also recommend Krikkit's earlier post about a Renault Sport 182 Trophy, these are sort after still and along side the integra DC2 is one of the best front wheel drive cars.
     
  15. Dave Lister

    Dave Lister Minimodder

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    880
    Likes Received:
    12
    Lotus Elise can be had for under your budget, not a hot hatch but definitely a drivers car.
     
  16. Blarte

    Blarte Moderate Modder

    Joined:
    15 Jul 2008
    Posts:
    1,578
    Likes Received:
    109
    I know its still not a cool name but Skoda make a pretty decent hatch now don't they? Aren't Skoda German owned as well now?
     
  17. jizwizard

    jizwizard Modder

    Joined:
    24 Dec 2010
    Posts:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    147
    Ek9 ctr. Rare round here 189bhp hold there value well and will eat cars with a lot more BHP on the track.
     
  18. S1W1

    S1W1 Minimodder

    Joined:
    25 Mar 2011
    Posts:
    235
    Likes Received:
    29
    I've always thought the MX5 looks a bit too effeminate...
    The Mazda RX8 on the other hand I really like.

    ============================================================

    I drive a Vauxhall Corsa 1.6 VXR and that's a hoot to drive, if you can stomach the slightly cheap inside plastics and the stereotype associated with sporty Corsas :D

    Btw I would avoid remapping the ECU mate- I had that done to a BMW 330d. Needless to say it died a couple of months later during a long drive on the motorway :(
    It may just have been a one off, but I've reached the conclusion that the manufacturer who spent thousands of hours developing the car knows better than Dave down the local garage :D
     
    Last edited: 31 Aug 2012
  19. Bhuvsta

    Bhuvsta Minimodder

    Joined:
    1 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    110
    Likes Received:
    3
    I have an EP3 Type-R too and its ace. I tried a few other hot hatches, but I preferred the way the civic drove. The Mini Cooper S was great fun too, but the Civic is more practical. Renault Sport cars are supposed to be the bee's knees handling wise, but have not heard good things about reliability and poor packaging. The Golf GTI and Audi S3 are nice to sit in, but I found them a bit boring. Also German cars aren't as reliable as the used to be. I haven't driven an MX-5 but wouldn't mind a MKI, regardless of what others think of it.

    My next car will probably be a 350z, its probably the closest I will get to an affordable muscle car at the moment (I'm too scared to own a TVR). Also its insurance costs the same as my Civic.
     
  20. dullonien

    dullonien Master of the unfinished.

    Joined:
    22 Dec 2005
    Posts:
    1,282
    Likes Received:
    29
    Can I ask how aggressive the remap was? Also what failed on the car, turbo? If it was a sensible remap, then there really shouldn't have been any reason why it caused any real issues. A huge amount of people remap modern diesel cars, and I've not heard of any real problems if done properly. Even some taxi firms remap their minibuses in order to make them more economical when full, and few engines are abused as much as the ones in taxi's (I know this because my gf's mum is a taxi driver).

    In a similar way to CPU's, every engine produced is different. Some are simply made better than others due to thousands of small variables, however every 330d (of the same age) is set-up as close as possible to produce the same power figures (the ones quoted in the brochures etc.). This power figure is often on the very cautious side in order to protect the few 'weaker' engines that come off the production line. This is why there is plenty of power ready to be unlocked from most engines, especially diesels which are built stronger than petrol's by default (hence the large millage most diesels are capable of). The majority of 330d's can easily be re-mapped without issue, and in most cases the re-map will also result in increased efficiency. Obviously you were unlucky, but there is no truth in thinking that BMW know better than a professional re-mapper, and have already optimally set-up the engine. There's plenty of headroom, as long as you don't go nuts and squeeze out 300+ bhp without changing other components, such as uprating the turbo.

    It's the same as overclocking processors really. A mild overclock on a 2500K is 99% of the time perfectly safe. Some can be pushed far higher, some can't. Intel play it safe with their default clock speeds, but that doesn't mean they are correct. It's about being sensible. Unfortunately, there are some failures for the very unlucky, but that shouldn't deter everyone else.

    For between £250-400, a professional re-map (done with a rolling road and plenty of readings) is simply phenomenal value for money. Upping the bhp of a 330d from 205bhp to at least 240bhp (more often 250-260bhp) whilst also increasing efficiency makes a lot of sense. It doesn't mean that the car has to be driven harder as a result, but the extra 40-60bhp (not to mention the torque) is nice to have on tap. My 320d now produces 177bhp, up from the standard 150bhp (can't remember the torque figures off the top of my head), it makes a big difference as I'm sure you know.

    Edit. sorry for the thread de-rail.
     
    Last edited: 1 Sep 2012

Share This Page