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Romney

Discussion in 'Serious' started by thehippoz, 13 May 2012.

  1. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    Democracy Capitalism is not perfect, but's the best system we have. To me the major thing that capitalism has in it's favour is its a democratic process. We vote with our wallets.

    As above capitalism is a democratic process. If we as consumers think these are important issues than we look for companies who share our ideals. I would also argue that these issues are ones for the governments of the countries housing the factories to deal with first of all. The western world went through it's industrial revolution and came out the other side stronger and healthier with much higher standards of living. It is rather telling that when communist Russia and China thought they could do things better millions suffered and died as a result. The relatively short period of sudo capitalism in China has raised the living standards faster and for more people than anything else. The process isn't pretty or painless but at least the workers there can look at their developed neighbors and see the destination their journey will lead them too.

    At the moment no credible alternative to capitalism exists. It does not mean we should stop looking for one but we should be wary of the costs and consequences paid by the people when we start experimenting. The main opponents of capitalism also make three major assumptions which I personally believe are false:

    1 - Governments know better than the market.
    2 - Government is effective or competent.
    3 - Government puts the interest of the people first.
     
  2. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    Then vote with your wallet when there is only one company selling you the service you require and it costs far above what you can pay.
     
  3. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Close in vote numbers

    Landslide in college numbers
     
  4. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    This is all kind of irrelevant, if the house is blocked by the GOP then Obama is powerless.
     
  5. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    The democratic process can vote in dictators. Monopolies and oligarchies will rise up in capitalism but that can be countered/controlled by appropriate regulation. Like I said, it's not the perfect system but it's the best we have.
     
  6. Risky

    Risky Modder

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    That's the way the constitution set it up with a balance of powers unlike the situation of elective dictatorship we can have here.

    The fact that the electorate chooses to have the hose it other hands to the Presidency may well indicate that they prefer some constraints on their politicians. At the end of the day if the Democrats want to pass legislation thye have to but up something that strikes americans in general as a reasonable compromise. If the hose appear to block stuff that should have broad support then the 2014 elections won't go so well fo rthe GOP.

    Howver I think they will carry on doing nothing, wait for the Republicans to propose a budget and then start howling again without any plan of their own :wallbash:
     
  7. kingred

    kingred Surfacing sucks!

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  8. kingred

    kingred Surfacing sucks!

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    **** white people. Not all of them. Just the racist ones and the ones acting pissy cuz Romney lost. Still love the other ones though.—
    Kiana Renee (@__Cheer__) November 07, 2012
     
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Sticking with that analogy, what if your wallet is thinner than someone else's? Less voting power. What if the candidates/products on offer (or that you can afford) are all a bit rubbish, complicated, full of hidden flaws (or outright lies), and you cannot afford not to buy? Kinda sucks. It is difficult to choose your health care provider when you cannot afford health care insurance, or while you are flatlining in an ambulance.

    Also consider this: capitalism sells baby milk powder in developing countries to mothers who would do better to just breast feed their babies. It sells expensive oral rehydration powders to hospitals when a spoon of salt and sugar will do the same trick. And just look at the Ford Pinto scandal to see market forces at work. In all those cases the customer is actually harmed by the transaction. Assymetry of information, moral hazard; all such factors skew choice in the free market.

    All that is true, but capitalism has its own myths we should be aware of:

    1 - The market is free (there is an equal balance of choice, which is valid and informed)
    2 - Hence everybody is equally empowered to put their own interests first
    3 - Hence capitalism is never a zero-sum game: both parties benefit more than they would have if the transaction had not occured.
     
    Last edited: 7 Nov 2012
  10. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    All the above is true Nexxo but if you live in a Con/Lab or Dem/Rep stronghold and you want to vote differently then your vote is effectively useless. I will repeat something you once said. If the choice of political candidates are rubbish then get off your butt and do something about it. If you can build the better mouse trap, then whats stopping you?

    African mothers have the choice not to buy baby milk. Hospitals can choose not to buy rehydration powders. All the factors you listed do indeed skew the free market but they are not caused by the free market.



    To repeat myself again. It's not perfect but it's the best system we have. All the failings you have mentioned are not caused by an economic theory. They are caused by people.
     
  11. GreatOldOne

    GreatOldOne Wannabe Martian

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    I can't find any reason online, so maybe our cousins can tell me...

    Why hasn't the result from Florida been announced? By all accounts, Obama took Florida (by a narrow margin, but not that narrow). From what I gather, all votes have been counted (assuming 100% reported equals the US equivilant of the returning officer formally announcing the count)

    So why hasn't the state's college votes been added to the Obama tally?

    Is there a recount going on? And if so, why does this always occur in Florida?
     
  12. eddie543

    eddie543 Snake eyes

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    And Economic theory is about trying to find the best way People can supply goods and services to People.

    Therefor if people are causing a problem with your economic theory, then your economic theory is going to cause a problem with people. :hehe:
     
  13. Action_Parsnip

    Action_Parsnip What's a Dremel?

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    :D ....hey I thought the forces of darkness* had this one in the bag. Glad I was wrong!**



    *Being the Mega Money crowd, nut bags, Xenophobes, homophobes and rape apologists.

    **Conservatism is a serious philosophy of governance that much is true but in this election cycle it did seem the Republican party was an umbrella group for the ignorant and the downright dangerous so do not deserve to be anywhere near the White House. I don't mean this as any disrespect to republican voters. There were very valid reasons to not re-elect Obama but at this point I am confident the correct choice was made.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Oh, it could be intelligence, education, money, time not spent on just surviving and making ends meet, health (mental and physical), discrimination of age, sex, race, natonality, social class... Again: not everybody has equal opportunities (Malala Yousefzai is not as powerful as the Taliban) or knows how to use them.

    No, but they are factors of market functioning so the market is not free. That is not a criticism; it's just how things are.

    Economics is basically psychology (specifically, the psychology of incentive: what people want and what they can or will do to get it). So yes, it is an integral part of economics.
     
    Last edited: 7 Nov 2012
  15. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    And here is where the USA is at this moment in time. It has the choice of making regulation to stop monopolies and oligarchies but instead feeds them and gives them power. If the government tries to make regulation against this they are called communist and everyone cries for deregulation.
     
  16. Scirocco

    Scirocco Boobs, I have them, you lose.

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    Florida stopped tallying votes last night as it was extremely late. They planned to pick it up again today. Some people were waiting in line seven hours or more in Florida (it was also bad in some other states,) so individuals were still voting long after the polls officially closed. The electoral college votes won't be added until there is an official result.

    As for a recount, states and municipalities set recount thresholds differently for automatic recounts. Also, in cases where there are documented or suspected irregularities, candidates can request recounts or challenge the official result. News outlets suspected one reason Romney did not make his concession call until late night was he and his advisers were evaluating possible recounts and/or challenges in Ohio. When it became clear that President Obama had met the threshold of 270 electoral votes even without Ohio, Romney conceded.

    The short story on why things like this tend to happen in Florida is: Florida sucks! Seriously though, the governor (Rick Scott) had early voting hours cut in the state, amongst other things. Another reason is that Florida has a good chunk of electoral votes at 29 and is considered a "swing" state, as in could go either Democratic or Republican, so it is hotly contested.

    Hope this gives you a little better view of the election.
     
  17. talladega

    talladega I'm Squidward

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    What is the big deal about Ohio. Was looking online and they seem to make a HUGE deal out of Ohio and trying to beat each other there. Ohio doesn't have that many electoral votes so why is it so important?
     
  18. Er-El

    Er-El Minimodder

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    This is what I was trying to emphasise.
     
  19. mucgoo

    mucgoo Minimodder

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    The overall winner has also won Ohio every election since 1964.
     
  20. Tynecider

    Tynecider Since ZX81

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    I like this
     

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