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Other Microsoft Surface thoughts?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by terrorbyt, 19 Sep 2012.

  1. thewelshbrummie

    thewelshbrummie Minimodder

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    Thanks for the kind words Goodbytes.

    +rep, worked perfectly. Videos app could do with a better way of showing the videos I have, ideally sorting tv programmes by series/show name and episodic order. Date added and A-Z aren't ideal for multiple episodes of TV shows - since I have them in different folders I can get away with it on date added. It's no different to the Zune app of old, it behaved the same way and threw most video into the "other" video field. So it could do with a better way of sorting them out. (combination of XVid and mp4 re-encodes - both work fine).

    re: MCE. It's an x86/64 app. Unlesss Microsoft recode it for ARM &/or Metro I doubt it will work on Windows RT (I will give it a go, but MCE is only supposed to run on Win8 Pro). AFAIK only Windows Media Player and Media Center can play wtv files natively without re-encoding. It's an annoyance and borderline dealbreaker, especially as Microsoft generally have excellent backwards compatibility between apps/Windows version (XP>Vista excluded). The cynic in me would believe it's to push me to buying TV episodes from the MS Store though I hope that's an incorrect conclusion.

    Essentially I made the wrong assumption that wtv would be supported by the videos app in RT. I could convert everything but since I'm currently using Microsoft products they all - except the surface - can simply play a copied file without conversion. It's a disappointing loss of functionality.

    A few further thoughts:

    Browser - it's pretty solid. I use IE out of choice anyway so again, the quirks weren't difficult to adjust to Like the HP touchpad and Windows Phone, it's not really designed to have huge numbers of tabs open (Touchpad was more due to lack of RAM, WP only supports 6 open tabs max). But I love swiping a webpage sideways to go forwards/backwards, a nice touch.

    Battery life is impressive too - light(ish) use on Thursday (web browsing, 2ish hours of music playback, 30mins over bluetooth) and it had 25% left after 12 hours away from a charger (about half of that was in standby, with wifi on).

    Bluetooth music streaming/cabled music playing - I doubt it will replace my phone for music playback when on the move but it behaves like my laptop does. I usually have music on in the car when driving - with bluetooth and via a 3.5mm jack to jack cable, every phone I've had and my HP Touchpad will automatically pause music when bluetooth is disconnected or the cable pulled. The Surface is just like my laptop - it continues playing music and doesn't auto-pause. Not necessairly a problem, but certainly a quirk of Windows that's good to be aware of.
     
  2. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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  3. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    I think this is correct. And this doesn't surprise me. I mean:
    -> Storage space mentioned is not what you get in real life, (like all SSD/HDD's that you buy)
    -> SSD's require a certain percentage of reserve space.
    -> You have Windows RT
    -> Printer drivers, and any other drivers Microsoft wanted to provide via its USB port
    -> You have Office which is big by itself
    -> You have hibernation file (fast boot), and page file (so that you are not limited by RAM)
    -> You have ALL the Windows 8 tools built-in Windows RT (Notepad, Calculator, Disk Management, Paint, Resource monitor, task manager, event viewer, and so on and so forth)
    -> All provided Metro apps.
    -> Recovery for re-install without the need of any disk or other system.

    So while iOS and Android consume less space.. you can't do what Windows RT provides and does.

    And unlike iOS, you have expendable storage via it's microSD card, which is hidden under the stand, so that nothing sticks out or looks ugly. So essentially, it's like installing a second HDD/SSD.
     
    Last edited: 5 Nov 2012
  4. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    I wonder if anyone tries to do dual screen with the Surface RT?
    I wonder if it's iOS where it clones only, second display only, or you can even expend (I highly doubt that it can do over 1920x1200 smoothly, due to the ARM week power and Tegra 3 chip not being the fastest around).
     
  5. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    I was only commenting that it makes sense for MS's pricing for SurfaceRT against the iPad, as rather than being a straight 32 versus 16GB capacity comparison at the same price, it is more like a 16GB versus 14.5GB (or however much iOS uses, cba to check).

    I'm also not sure tablets treat their NAND like we do SSDs, with over-provisioning and so forth. Pretty damn sure they just have the entire available space open for use

    I think RT only does mirroring when a second screen is plugged in.
     
  6. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Pretty sure not. My 16GB Galaxy Nexus says 13.33GB Total space, and even in worst case scenario 16GB means 14.9 GiB. That means 1.57-2.67 GB/GiB is missing somewhere even at my low 16GB device.
     
  7. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Well you still have more space on the Surface, plus you have expendable storage with the Surface. So it comes down Surface RT vs Android.


    Well I don't think Microsoft over-provisioning anything, but the SSD probably does, like when we buy an SSD now, a certain percentage is locked. And even then, from a 32GB SSD, it's what? 500MB? maybe less. And if not, well you still get the idea.

    Actually... I found this:
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows/cityscapes-panoramic-download-theme
    So I guess you can! Wow this is amazing, if anyone can confirm this. Android you can do this (only play HD video or in some specific situations, and iPad, forget it)
     
  8. Snips

    Snips I can do dat, giz a job

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    The Surface RT disk space is as follows:-

    300mb Recovery Partition
    200mb EFI System Partition
    24.99 GB Windows (C:)
    3.52 GB Recovery Partition

    So it's 29GB in total, of which I have 12.45 left ;)
     
  9. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Well by "Windows" you mean:
    -> Windows RT
    -> All Metro Apps (I only have the basic apps, and I uninstall a few of them, and it's about 360MB)
    -> All built-in Windows desktop apps (Disk Management, Word Pad, Notepad, Command Prompt, Windows Media Player, Calculator, etc..)
    -> Office 2013
    -> Temp folder
    -> web browser cache
    And that is assuming: you have no music or video files or documents or backgrounds, etc...

    A clean default install with Office 2013 you should have about 16GB free.
     
  10. Omega Point

    Omega Point Minimodder

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    [​IMG]

    I cannot connect a monitor as I haven't got a micro-hdmi adapter but the option to extend is there so it should work.
     
  11. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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  12. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Don't really get the point in this, mobile phones like iphone and SG3 have already cut into the mobile gaming market look at nintendos loses in the last year or so.

    Do people want something that's bigger than a ps vita or 3ds for there gaming needs, sounds crazy.
     
  13. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Nintendo is loosing the casual gamers from its portable gaming system. However, if you seek for more involved games, better for your value for your money (length, story, attention to details, well overall more fun), than you want Nintendo portable system. If you just want to play a game for your 15min bus trip or something, because you are bored, then a smartphone game will do just fine, where you casually and for a small burst play a game (hence: casual gamer).

    Most people on the go, either drives, or have a small commute. So Nintendo handheld system is getting to be a niche market.

    Sony PSP series never picks up for multiple reasons:
    -> The device cost too much, and you are afraid of getting it stolen.
    -> It's big, and feels like it won't survive multiple drops, and you are scared of it, due to the high price
    -> As Sony looses money on the console, fees related in publishing a game are high, and game prices are also high.
    -> Sony PSP games are what the title says: Portal PlayStation. You just want to play a bit, you don't want to start seeking save points, or what not to save. The 3Ds you can just flip it close, and resume letter, or the type of games allows frequent saving, or levels are small. While they are plenty of exception on both devices, this is the main, I believe, image that the PSP provide. Like the Nintendo image that their gaming consoles aren't for "hardcore gamers", and are for "kids". An image that is very hard to beat. Nintendo tried with the GameCube and failed, They tried again with the Wii for short time, but failed. And now they try again with the WiiU. All using different strategies. GameCube was the fancy specs.. that didn't work, the Wii was about releasing massive Nintendo first party games and continuing Metroid franchise, that didn't work, and now Nintendo is pushing WiiU third party titles, and Nintendo is barely promoting any of it's own games, and delayed release even it's big games, to not over shadow third party games, in the hope that sales for them are high enough to have third party developer see value in making games for the system. Already, Nintendo has 1 excellent advantage over the other consoles: Easy to develop on. Now will it work? That's a different story.

    Anyway, that's my view on this, and this is off topic.

    On Topic, I think what it will be, is the Surface RT, with a special custom UI, better integration with the coming up new XBox, and powerful custom ARM chip with a powerful GPU. Battery life will be lower, or the device will be thicker.

    What isn't clear is that the article says 288MB of RAM.. that is much less than the Surface RT, Surface RT has 2GB of RAM. So if the RAM amount is correct. I see that Microsoft will do what Nintendo WiiU is doing with the next XBox. You have the XBox 720 or wtv, and you can buy this tablet/controller for cheap (maybe 200$ (assuming the WiiU controller costs 120$)) where not only you can play games with the console, but you can take it with you on the go, unlike the WiiU. Also, as it has it's own processor and memory and so on, it will allow the XBox to have better visuals. Because what kills the visual of the WiiU, is that it needs to render on 2 screens. The down side, is that it will be a seirous pain and challenge for game developers to not only developer games with this, but having both in sync will be hell. So expect it to be mini games (on the go), or maps on it (while playing with the console).
     
    Last edited: 6 Nov 2012
  14. thewelshbrummie

    thewelshbrummie Minimodder

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    That's about right. Can't comment on the 32GB version but I had 46GB free on my 64GB model - about the same as reported in the article.

    Since I've got a free £50 to spend in the Microsoft Store, I'll probably get the HDMI adapter with it. Certainly worth it when it'll effectively cost nothing.
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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  16. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Well its certainly plausible. Especially if his claims are true that most reviewers have week old or relatively new best buy accounts. It reminds me of louis walsh saying he drove around the country buying up some boyzone single securing their spot at number one. It also remind me of a tv show panel where authors discussed reviewing their own works on amazon or getting friends to do it. Self reviews are not without precedent.
     
    Last edited: 18 Dec 2012
  17. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Sales have been poor or they would not of released it to stores like best buy.

    As there main goal was to be like Apple and only sell on there own website + stores. Wether this will change much outside of USA i dout.

    Its been put in john lewis stores in the uk at least, But theres not alot of them ( 30 in total covers the entire uk) Compares better than the 0 microsoft stores that exist though.

    Still wonder if MS real intensions was to just get control of USA market and not care less about the global market. Pricing and distribution have not been great, Whilst content is still highly lacking.
     
  18. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Content will improve over time. But it could turn into the HP or RIM equivalent and just not take off at all. Although I find that unlikely at the moment.
     
  19. terrorbyt

    terrorbyt MultiModder

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    Wow, in a seperate thread I asked if an SD card would be a useful storage device to go with my laptop's tiny 110gb SSD and everyone went nuts saying how awful SD cards are!
     
  20. terrorbyt

    terrorbyt MultiModder

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    You need to stop fixating on the global market thing, you have to remember Microsoft is a US based company, so yes they do care a lot more about the US than Europe. Don't take it personally, hell we should be used to it by now!
     

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