Windows Windows 8 Marmite thread... Because you either love it or hate it

Then maybe you need to look forward to ways of improving things, instead of dismissing suggestions with off hand comments about hindsight and things being really, really hard.
Should we tell people with cancer not to bother giving up smoking because it's really, really hard, or tell them its no good wishing they never started, now they realise it may kill them.

 

Nothing to see here. Move along....

 

It is no good wishing that they never started. It's no good lamenting why we didn't have as effective cancer treatments back in the 1990's, when my mum-in-law was still alive. You can only look forward.

No problem with the second half of your post (in fact I kind of agree) but to ask why Microsoft couldn't do what they do now back in the Windows 98 days is critique, not suggestions for improvement.

 

Critique is based upon an informed opinion, and never upon personal opinion. Informed opinion is accepted as being technical knowledge, personal or professional experience, or specified training.

 

I feel like your definition of "looking forward" is "learn to love Windows 8".

I don't love windows 8. I don't want to use a UI designed for touch on my desktop. The message I want to send MS is "if you want my money make an OS that works for me, because I'm not going to change how I use my computer to suit your latest fad".

 

That is not what i said, if you look back you will see i said Active Desktop and Gadgets were used as examples that the underpinnings of a usable touch UI has been there for a long time.
That Microsoft had the ability to integrate live tiles directly onto the desktop space.

 

If they had gone that way, people would have complained that the tiles were unusable while covered by open windows. I would be more inclined to have a semi-transparent dark band with tiles slide out over the desktop in some way (people could decide whether to have it slide up from the bottom edge, top edge or just slide in from the left in the middle). There have been some mock-ups on the internet proposing that.

In fact there could be an Xbox 360-esque "blade" system in that band. One with start menu items, one with a search window, and several dedicated to key apps or functions and one with system stats etc.

You don't have to learn to love Windows 8, but you'll have to accept that it is what it is and either use it or use something else. But feel free to suggest improvements. Corky45 and Wolfticket have.

 

Is that not the same problem user have when using programs on the Start screen, that of running programs/open windows covering the tiles ?
Either way i don't think placing live tiles in a start menu is the way to go, IMO they need to drop the idea of splitting the OS into two separate user spaces and merge them into one space usable by all.

 

No, as soon as you invoke it, Start Screen is essentially on top.

There is a fairly elegant way of creating a Start Menu that incorporates live tiles. I'm not sure what Microsoft showed at BUILD is the way to do it.

 

Well... as a long time Rainmeter user... I do have to say there is absolutely nothing wrong with having live info on the desktop at all times. Either position application windows so you can see the items at all times, or use peek to view them as needed. Not rocket surgery.
I've also had at times different iterations of application launchers/start replacements through Rainmeter (though that went into disuse with me when app pinning to task bar was introduced) and I have found such set ups highly useable. There really isn't much of a reason not to have a live desktop/start screen combination as far as I am concerned from a usability standpoint.

 

Information widgets on the desktop are a no-brainer because they're practical, but you don't need to click on them. Live tiles launch apps, so it's annoying when the tile you want to click on happens to be covered by a window. The only problem I had with RocketDock.

We could have info widgets on the desktop which then would obviate the need for live tiles (you could launch apps the conventional icon way), although of course it would be nice if you had the choice to interact with widgets. But I see no reason why we couldn't have a Start Menu that incorporates live tiles, if it is designed right.

 

Sorry to say but i disagree
One of the reasons for dumping the Start Menu, particularly for a touch interface is because it's fiddly and can bury commands in a maze of sub menus. IMO the start screen is nothing more than a souped up full screen Start Menu, that is designed to make it more suitable for touch, and give the user more feedback, so to take a step backwards and force it back into a small popup menu seems illogical.

Personally i would prefer to see either the Modern UI elements on the desktop, or the desktop elements on the start screen. Obviously with the option to hide or disable those elements not suited for the device it's running on, like the soon to be released 8.1 update boots to the desktop when not installed on a device with a touch screen.

If the device is touch capable, disable the Start Menu, Task Bar, and the other fiddly stuff like drop down menus, right click menus, etc, etc. And enable those interface elements suited for touch, like swipe gestures and hot corners. If its not running on a touch capable device do the opposite, obviously with the option to change those settings to better suit those people not happy with the defaults.

 

Thinking about it, I'd go a bit further. I'd evoke a bundle of 'blades' from a swipe-left or start button, with the option to select which blades you want it to contain, and in what order. You could have Start Menu blade (with the usual run panel and cascading menus), system info blade, control panel/peripheral setup blade, media blade, Skype, messenger and email blades, all fully interactive and live while expanded, and an unobtrusive column while contracted (perhaps with an icon, notification flags or in media a play/stop & volume button).

People who want the usual desktop experience select Start Menu and control panel, and perhaps the functional essentials. People who use touch select blades in a format more suited to touch.

Blades could be customisable and developers can write their own blades and upload them, and users can download and install them; e.g. a Steam blade? Sure. A mobile phone specific sync/management blade? Why not. Pick the interface you want.

Basically think of blades as huge widget/live tile/apps.

 

I don't understand what is the difference in hitting peek and then selecting a live tile that was living on desktop to launch an app, or hitting start and selecting a live tile to launch an app? It's all the same amount of effort.

 

The fact that this opinion is still so prevalent after all this time is evidence that Microsoft has not done a good enough job marketing Windows 8. I have Windows 8 installed on 3 computers at home - two desktops and one non-touch laptop - and all of my computing with mouse and keyboard works nearly exactly the same as it always has. Honestly I'm a bit baffled as to why tech-savvy people continue to promote this incorrect view that Windows 8 is designed for touch. It is designed so that it works in both environments.

I also couldn't disagree more with the opinion that tablets and touch interfaces are nothing more than a fad. The computer trends over the past 5-10 years have shown otherwise.

 

So, running 8.1 Update 1, aka 'Feature Pack for Windows' right now...

The changes are minor, but welcome. Running metro apps now show [and can be pinned to] the task bar, and the task bar and minimise/close controls can be accessed from metro apps [they auto-hide after a while, making them a pain to screengrab]. Shutdown/search controls in top corner are also welcome.



The 'All Apps' layout has changed slightly and the main start screen shows a 'X New apps' notification when anything new is installed.




Right-clicking tiles now brings up a right-click menu for 'Run as admin', 'uninstall' and so on instead of the metro-esque bottom bar pre update.



After the update, for me at least, it also defaulted to booting stright to the desktop... And now defaults to opening Photos/Music/Videos in the desktop apps [Picture Viewer and WMP].

People are still gonna bitch but 8.x is gradually feeling less rough round the edges.

 

H8ters gonna hate. (see what I did there? )

 

Maybe that's just how they troll...

Anyway... just added some screenshots to my post above, the changes may not calm 8's fiercest critics but it's mouse friendliness has improved a bit [not that I thought it was all that bad]...


... I do however think that the re-added 'start menu' [which isn't in the update, it's 'coming soon'] looks half-arsed...

 

I actually preferred the Modern bar at the bottom with options for the tiles. Ok so it's a bit further away than a menu that appears right where you click, but since i have the use of my hands, it's not particularly troubling to move the cursor to the bottom of the screen. I thought it fitted in better with the whole start menu feel. Whatever though.

Edit: thanks for the screenshots redflames

 

Not sure if windows did this pre-update but clicking on the category/folder headings on the all apps view you get this:



Could come in handy if you've got a lot of things installed...