E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

New legislation that can be created or the ECA can be amended to have any laws that are on the books that require the ECA to be enforced to be now be in force with the new act. It wont be a decade, some of the EU laws on the books wont be superseded, amended or repealed even after 100 years, the ones that are needed to be will be as and when. Some immediately, some later and some wont need to be ever.

Taken from the 1975 EEC referendum debate of much better quality and well worth a watch much was predicted of the moves towards political union of the kind the EU become from the leavers at the time.

And considering we lend our powers to parliament and our parliament has continued to give away the powers of the electorate, through maastricht, lisbon and the continued increase in EU competencies and regulation. I ask, what kind of debtor borrows that which doesn't belong to them and then gives it away with little hope of return; to such a point that upon each successive time that power, that were borrowed, is asked to be returned to the electorate, in a general election, the repayment comes up short leaving a debt not repaid?

What kind of debtor indeed, a debtor that can only be have the characteristics of a bankrupt only resulting in a parliamentary system that is democratically bankrupt.

 

It's your opinion that it is a car crash but as you said we haven't even took the route towards what you think will result in a car crash and the car continues to look like it is firmly and safely on the road.

We just decided to take a different route to a different destination.
While we have the hysteria of a minority of people who shout that we have crashed the car.

 

I'm going to get on with life, probably like most people, and deal with whatever trials and tribulations get thrown up from whatever course the government chooses to take.

To use the car crash analogy I'm going to deal with the fact that someones just crashed it and leave them to their own devices, I'm going to sit back and watch what the guy who just crashed the car does to fix things.

I'm going to say i told you so when the person who said i was scaremongering for telling them not to play in the road when they get hit by a car, and why wouldn't i, if someone ignores your advise then IMO they only have themselves to blame when things go wrong and it's down to them to prove you wrong.

Indeed it is, my opinion i mean, but that's only something that will either proved or disproved in the coming years.

I do find it highly amusing though that people are saying how we should try and deal with the present and start looking to the future, and how there's hysteria from a minority of people yet these same people have been doing the opposite of that for 40+ years when it came to the EU, it seems they didn't want to deal with the EU and look to the future, they made hysterical claims about the EU, and now when the shoes on the other foot they don't see to like it.

 

I find it even more amusing that the remain camp still seem to have misplaced their dummies

 

What you mean in the same way the leave camp misplaced there's for the last 40+ years, and then threw there toys out the pram.

 

I never got to vote in the EEC referendum, I was a baby when that referendum was held. I may have been throwing toys out of the pram back then but it certainly wasn't due to our membership

I voted in favour of leaving this time, as soon as I had the opportunity, are you saying because I did I was throwing my toys out the pram? See it's that attitude that makes me even more happy that I did vote out. Remainers............pfft.

 

I'd love to start looking to the future, but there's this little detail about my continued right of residence in the UK that hasn't quite been worked out yet. It is likely that little will change, if only for the practical reason that the UK doesn't have the resources to track us all down and deport us, but the fact is that my residency status is at the moment up in the air, and that the government refuses to clarify it anymore than it does Brexit (perhaps the two are related).

Thing is, Brexit has all sorts of problems and consequences that Leavers seem unaware of.

 

So... the current Brexit plan then looks like this:

0. Beg one's way into the EU.
1. Ruin UK economy through backwards policies.
2. Blame the EU.
3. Leave the EU.
4. ???
5. Profit.

Did I miss a step?

I feel that the 'car crash' analogy is very apt. With the Quitters admitting that they lied about basically everything during the campaign before vanishing, it should be clear to anyone with a brain that there never was a plan, or any intention to truly leave the EU. It was 'merely' a Conservative Party internal fight which spilled over into public view.

The UK will not leave the EU. Everyone who isn't completely daft knows this. The UK was the weakest economy of Europe before it joined the EEA/EU. When it leaves it'll soon be back where it started.

Those in the general UK public, but also those in other EU countries who whine about 'leaving the EU' are just as clueless. In the Netherlands, but also in France and Germany there are such whiners, who can only stammer on about how 'evil' the EU is while making use of its facilities and systems to propagate their message of hate and isolationism. They don't have a plan or any ideas for how a Europe without union would work.

The conclusions drawn by many heads of state as well as countless others at the end of WWII that the only way there would be peace in Europe if its nations sough union is still the correct one. There is nothing to be gained through nationalism and the resulting strife, yet so much through cooperation and acting like bleedin' adults for the first time in Europe's history.

I'm quite frankly sick of hearing Quitters and kin reiterate their same points over and over again, while never providing any solutions, let alone address the elephant in the room of the Number One Problem for the UK being the UK itself. The UK has to reform itself, introduce more democracy and more transparency. It has to dismantle the inheritance of privileges and the 'Old Boys' club which makes that the UK is still essentially ruled over by a monarch and the aristocracy.

There is nothing to be gained for the general UK populace by leaving the EU. In fact, it's probably their only chance that said reforms will ever happen in their lifetime.

Isn't it ironic that the UK is probably the least democratic country in the EU at this moment, yet which makes the biggest fuss about 'democratic decisions'?

 

Yeah, but it's OK because:



Once Britain has left the EU, the electorate will have taken back control and the government will have sovereignty and all those immigrants taking their jobs, their housing, their school placements and the last chair in NHS waiting rooms will all go back to whence they came.

There will be loads of money for the NHS to cure a 25% morbidly obese population that drinks too much, 30 years of successive governments' right-to-buy policies eliminating council housing will instantly reverse, there will be loads of jobs suddenly available for all those highly skilled Brits so well-trained through accessible apprenticeship schemes and affordable University education, and schools will be flourishing because White British parents suddenly start to value education as much as immigrants do.

And the electorate will exercise its newly reacquired control by becoming informed voters who are not swayed by tabloid rags but actually have a clue. And all will be well in this glorious isle, amen.

 

Hammer, nail and a perfect one shot.

/me goes back into my box

 

I'm not sure i knew what toys were back then, too busy soiling nappy's.

No I'm saying the same attitude of what should we do now, we're all doomed, look how bad things are, and all the negativity is what we've been hearing from camp leave for over 40 years, I'm saying the let's all pull together, we can do this, and that can do attitude is what camp remain have been saying for 40+ years, the only thing that's changed is the shoes on the other foot now.

Camp leave were being obstinate little so and so's because they didn't like the EU but now for some reason when camp remain act the same way it's seen as unhelpful, go figure.

To put it another way do you think the likes of Mr Farage was working to make the EU better, to right what he saw as the wrongs, to persuade others to support what he saw as needed reforms, do you think he manifested the virtues you now want to see from remain supporters towards the EU, did he heck.

 

I still haven't heard what you think is the way forward, except a vague "Let's be positive". You remain remarkably evasive on that. Which leads me to believe that you do not, in fact, have a clue, and only voted Leave because you had a hazy notion that it might get rid of those Central European gipsies camping out in your neighbourhood. So yes, toys out of pram, and the above post proves it.

 

You do make me giggle at times Nexxo, the urge you have to try and gain the higher intellectual ground consistently, were you bullied as a child or something? Or is the ego a bit out of control? I don't need to justify anything to you, nor do I want to. What would be the point? Another 100 pages of the same old diatribe?

 

You asked us the question, so I thought it polite for you to put forward your own view in turn. It's how debate works. Instead we get some strange defensive rage full of insult and ridicule, and how you don't have to 'justify yourself'. Which says more about you than it does about me, I'm afraid.

I mean, your side won, right? I thought you'd be happy. I thought you'd have a positive constructive position on how Britain should move forward. Instead here you are again, under a new account, to join the "100 pages of the same old diatribe" with the same old, well, diatribe, without offering anything positive or constructive. Don't you have a Brexit to get on with?

 

It's interesting how you've deemed the electorate too stupid to be allowed to have the referendum previously but now expect members of that electorate to come up with a Brexit plan. What are you expecting here? People that don't have a background in international trade economics diplomacy and politics to come up with a watertight plan? Or are you just looking for something to point and laugh at?

 

It's more about personal responsibility, I would say. Two sides vied for the right to decide on the future of the country, one side wins. The winner then has the sole responsibility to make this future into a success.

Of course, one could also take the negative view to this situation, decide that said winning side in this case are a bunch of lunatics, get that European passport and make for the border, as lots of Brits appear to be doing since June 23rd.

 

I expect them to have an answer to the very same question that they keep asking me. After all they voted Leave; surely they had some idea in mind of what that should mean and how that should be pursued?

But no. Remainers are accused of not being positive and constructive in their attitude, for not embracing Brexit and getting on with, with what actually? Never mind a plan, what is the objective? still don't know what Leavers want Brexit to mean.

 

Maybe Remainers should have the same positivity towards Brexit as leavers had to the EU, maybe Remainers should be as constructive in their attitude towards Brexit as leavers were with the EU.

It really does seem like the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to criticism about Remainers attitude.

 

Face it: Brexit just isn't happening because of a lack of Happy Thoughts on the side of those who didn't vote to leave the EU. Those people will have to be disciplined so that the Brave New Age of the Second British Empire can begin.

Now fall in line, Comrade

 

Apparently Brexit magic is powered by the positive attitude of Remainers. It's like fairy dust.