Moved from another thread. Accurate testing using where the temperature of air entering radiator or cooler is the same or where this intake air temp is used for delta temperature comparisons have repeatedly shown air to be similar to 240mm and not much difference even with 280mm CLCs. When CLC fans are ran at same noise level as top air coolers the air coolers give lower CPU temperatures. When air cooler run high airflow fans like CLCs the air coolers usually run significantly cooler than CLCs at same noise levels. An obvious example of this was Silver Arrow SB-E, Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme and H100 done by PC Cooling 5 years ago. H100 was 1c cooler than Silver Arrow SB-E, but 14dB louder .. that is almost 3 times as loud to the ears. Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme (2500rpm 130cfm fans) was 7c cooler than H100 and only 1dB louder . not enough louder for our ears to even hear a difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xrsuPwDbo Here is data from another source.
Are you going to play nicely this time, doyll? It looks a bit like you're steeling yourself for another argument.
Most of us who buy CLC also buy there own fans just like those on here who run air coolers will also do the same. My H115 is whisper quiet because of this whilst offering better temps. Stock fans where too loud for my taste, got 4 corsair SP 140 fans they are whisper quiet, picked em up on another forum for under £20 brand new in box.
Hehe I don't think there'll be any riots. I wanted to settle this for myself a while ago because I'm very much an air cooling enthusiast and I was always under the impression that there isn't much difference between air cooling and CLCs. However, my tests with the True Rev. C., the TS140P and the NZXT Kraken X61 revealed otherwise - neither air cooler stood a chance against the CLC unless you slapped on some silly-RPM server fans. Now I'm happy to admit that the X61 is [alleged to be] one of the better CLCs, and there probably are more commonplace units that just don't do such a good job, but for raw cooling performance at low noise I can't see air getting close to CLC. I've since swapped my TS140P out for a Silver Arrow SB-E and it's all much the same... I'm very fortunate to have a CPU that doesn't run particularly hot even at 4.6GHz and under full load my CPU fan stays at around 800rpm and temps at or below 70C.
Radically different results to what you got with TRUE Sprit 140 Power w/ 2x TY-143 against your TRUE CU in your previous testing on .. was it 980X? I would think TRUE Cu and TRUE rev.C would give similar performance. But your results have True out-performing X61 .. but obviously being much louder.
I don't think the results were radically different at all - in fact I'm seeing a trend between the two sets of results, and obviously the second set of tests using the X5650 overclocked to the hilt shows higher delta results because it was a much hotter CPU. For example, with 2xTY @ 1200rpm the delta is 52.55 in the first test, and with 2xTY @ 1100rpm the delta is 55.5 in the second test. The original tests were done on an i7 920, a much lighter load for these power coolers. It's also worth noting that the TRUE Rev. C is a vastly different cooler from the TRUE Cu despite being of similar design. The biggest difference is that the TRUE Rev. C has fewer fins with considerably more space between them, and also the big V-shaped cutout in the fins which changes how the air passes through the stack (especially with more powerful fans). Maybe in the future I'll get a chance to extensively test the Rev. C, but it does seem a bit like flogging a dead horse now as it's clear that there are better air coolers where low noise is concerned, even if the Rev. C does scale extremely well with faster fans. And yes the Rev. C did outperform the X61, but if you look at the performance curves you can see that even with a 4000rpm fan the Rev. C gets bested by the X61 moseying along with 1450rpm fans. Apples to apples results from my tests show that the AIO is considerably ahead (read: 6 degrees) of the TS140p with two fans at 1100rpm, and almost a full ten degrees clear of the TRUE with two fans at 1450rpm. My rationale has always been that I like the look of air cooling, and I like that I don't have to worry at all about maintenance or unwanted leaks. As well as that, there's the price of air coolers which IMO is very attractive. So it really is a matter of opinion at the end of the day.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack your results in any way. My experience using both i7 920 and i7-980x is 920 ran hotter than 980x did, so the differences there are to be expected. Wider fin spacing usually translates into less heat radiation, not more. This becomes more noticeable when hi-performance fans are used. It would be interesting to see comparison testing of TRUE Cu and TRUE Rev. C. Did you do any noise level comparisons? To me the performance at similar dB is more important than actual rpm is. Yeah, the extreme fans make so much noise it becomes hard to live anywhere close to them. I have one of the be quiet! Silent Loop 280mm in one of my systems and really like it. It's not a CLC, but an alphacool AIO with fittings, hoses, fill port, copper radiator and pump that moves about twice what CLC pumps do. Great cooling and very quiet.
Heh it's cool man - I didn't think you were attacking at all. I have seen other users test the two TRUE coolers and the results are very variable because they don't really measure things consistently (or even use the same fan on both coolers, for crying out loud). My own tests with the original TRUE and TRUE Cu were always done with the same fans with speed adjusted manually, and on the subject of noise I usually found anything more than 1100rpm a bit annoying, even with Gentle Typhoons. I think the different TRUE coolers were much of a muchness in that department because to keep the noise level acceptable meant sacrificing the performance, and that's why I started all my tests at 1100rpm in the second instance. Despite the promise of better low-speed performance from the Rev. C with it's increased fin spacing, it still needed the faster fan(s) to perform adequately with a hot CPU under load. As for exact comparison figures, I'd have to test it properly - and now, sadly, I have neither the Rev. C or a suitable computer for one!
An interesting debate for sure. I've been considering getting a CLC (like a Corsair H100i) for a while, but I don't like the increased risk of failure - if the system develops a leak, or if the pump fails your CPU will likely fry. On my current air cooler (Noctua), I have two fans. If one fails, nothing happens. If both fails, then the CPU will overheat, but again it will take a while. It just seems like a safer solution, but still with good cooling results. The other benefit of air is that it is usually significantly cheaper! I think I will re-use my Noctua heatsink in my next build.
I've had one AIO failure and that was a Coolit. When it happened my rig would simply shut down. If I tried to power it back on it would not do so until the CPU had cooled adequately. So no, your CPU doesn't fry if it fails. I also did not know it had failed, so it shut down loads of times, more than enough to cause damage. Yet it didn't.
My reasons for buying a CLC are only partly for temperatures. Firstly I have found from my own experience that they can be run quieter too whilst still maintaining an acceptable noise level. The main thing that I prefer is accessibility inside my case. I quite regularly will fiddle around inside my case (cleaning, swapping components, tidying cables, whatever) and I find with a CLC that I have much more room to manoeuvre compared to an air cooler - I have sliced my fingers on more than 1 air cooler but never on a CLC.
The failure problem is minimal, but the life expectancy. Cost difference is significant, and CLCs are way less dependable than air coolers. While a few leak, the pump is the usual failure, but they seem to normally last 3 years, and most problems seem to be after 4-5 years of use. start. Pump failures are most common and like you said, when CLC stops working there is no cooling. A whole new cooler is needed, not quick or cheap. Air coolers never fail .. at least I've never heard of one failing. Only the fan, and that doesn't stop the cooler from working at lower load .. or any fan can do until replacement arrives. Low cost and easy fix. We really have 2 types of coolers; water and air. We have 3 types of water cooling; custom loop, AIO (not clc) and CLC. I see a big problem with CLCs being lumped into the AIO cooler family. All CLCs are AIOs, but not all AIOs are CLC. Swiftech Hxxx X2 and X2 Prodigy, EK Predator, be quiet! Silent Loop, Alphacool Eibaer, Fractal Design Kelvin are all AIOs, but not CLCs. They have copper radiators instead of Aluminum, better pumps/waterblocks/motors, proper fittings and hoses that can be custom fit, a fill port and the ability to replace and expand the system .. especially the Swiftech and EK. The others are all Alphacool OEM and the pump will support another radiator, but I would not try to run a 2nd waterblock.
