E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Most politicians but their political interest first, either because they don't care or because they have convinced themselves that their interests are the nations. Remember it was Corbyn that refused to campaign to stay in the EU alongside the other parties preferring to just make speeches attacking the Conservatives.

 

TBH I don't entirely disagree with the message, I just disagree because its the self mastabatory git Davis saying it.

 

Fixed so it says what he should have said to make any sort of sense.

 

If we're going to level that accusation Corbyn we'd also have to include Sturgeon as statistically they were level pegging on how successful they were...

And if we're going to accuse Corbyn of a lackluster campaign then what would our current PM's efforts be labeled as?

Either way however we personally feel about particular poloticians campaigning efforts sort of misses the crux of the issue, that the only way to win the political game is not to play.

 

Problem is: Davis has the wrong mindset for these negotiations. He is a high-risk tolerant short-term strategist. He focuses on the problem in front of him and doesn't worry about the long term or how bad it would be if things go wrong. That is an asset in an SAS operative, but not in a high-stakes negotiator.

 

Completely and utterly agree.

 

That's unfair on the SAS!! They are expected to be able to strategise and to look at the bigger picture and their role as special forces operatives operating beyond the chain of command in many circumstances, demands it. It isn't all guns blazing a la hollywood!! They would most likely do a better job of negotiations than Davis, and if not they could wipe the damned Euro buggers out. Win, Win!! If you're going to compare Davis to someone or some group at least be fair!!

EDIT:

One thing that is testing my patience is the "negotiations" on how much we will be paying the EU for our divorce bill. They are treating these "negotiations" like Arthur Daly would. The EU obviously has a figure in mind that would be acceptable to them, so why not declare it, so we can then agree or disagree and then move on?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42027859

 

They have declared it, we haven't accepted it.
The deadlock atm is the Uk govt is refusing to guarantee what it will pay, The EU is refusing to move to trade talks until the UK formally agrees to what it will pay.

 

Indeed they have, unfortunately it seems we've made no formal response to the EU’s position, nor has there been a position paper from the UK on the settlement, the house of commons library produced a rather lengthy research paper (PDF) last month that goes into more details.

 

Colour me thick but I've yet to see an absolute figure being given by the EU. This article says the same too:

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divo...6q7e6M2QttJXgQS_fhGVwk0xDalmoNcoaArlSEALw_wcB

Surely the EU should have done the maths by now and should have a figure which they would consider acceptable? That then should be the basis of any negotiations surely?

You can't criticise one side of the negotiations team without criticising the other here. They are both acting like poor poker players and it's bloody stupid.

 

You (not you personally) have to come to an agreement on the what before you can agree on an amount.

If you lived in an HMO you wouldn't just tell someone whose moving out how much they owe, you'd come to an agreement on what their liable for first as some of the amounts may not be known until after they've left.

As the commons library paper says the two sides have to agree on "the methodology for calculating" the outstanding financial commitments.

 

Whichever way it's described or explained, I think both parties in this need their bloody heads banging together. I'd love to be the one to do it too!! There is too much political gesturing and point scoring with nowhere near enough actual work being put into this. I'd be willing to bet the EU has had a figure in their back pocket for a good while that they will be prepared to accept, they will have worked that out according to their own methodology, so why not declare it? Saves all this cloak and dagger crap!!

I want to buy a car I expect the seller to give me a figure to work on in bartering, the same as if I was going through a marital divorce I'd expect my soon to be ex-wife to declare her figure for a settlement. I wouldn't keep saying "you show me your cards and I'll show you mine".

That may be a massively oversimplified viewpoint but it is how it looks to me.

 

But the seller doesn’t know what colour, options etc you want on your car so how can he give you a fair price.

 

The EU does know the terms they want the settlement bill to be worked out on though, so they know how much they are prepared to accept, they just aren't sharing that with us, the negotiators or anyone else!

 

Well no good negotiator in a position of strength would give out that figure, especially when the buyer has a time limit imposed on them.

It’s in the interest of the Eu for the Uk to make the offer because it keeps the balance of power with the Eu and it’s more likely they will get more money that way.

 

Best. Typo. Ever.

 

I think the EU will be happy to see a no deal situation, in the hope that it scares the UK enough to shelve Brexit or to teach the rowdy brits and any other EU member playing with the idea of an EU exit a lesson. That's the way it's looked to me for a good while.

 

The EU may know but no one has a clue if the UK agrees with them, using the buying a car analogy, even though analogies are flimsy in nature, it would be like a car dealer trying to sell you a car with these colour, options, etc, etc, you then say you're not interested in paying X amount for Y configuration and when asked what configuration you want for what price you stare silently at the car salesman expecting him to keep coming up with different configurations and prices until he hits on one you like.

While the EU knows what methodology they want to use for calculating the outstanding financial commitments you only have to look at the widely varying figures quoted in the media to understand even if you follow a certain methodology in your calculations you can still have varying figures, i would guess that's because small changes in how you value something can have a large impact on the final figure.

Take for example the second part of what the EU proposes, it says the UK should...

IIRC That's about 13% of the EU budget based on how the UK economy performed in 2016 but as we're not leaving until 2018 and we don't have a time machine it's impossible to know what the numerical figure will be on that date, if the UK economy crashed between now and then the final figure would go down, if we entered a boom it would go up, so as you can see it's impossible to put a number to those outstanding financial commitments until we've actually left.

Whoops, edited that because so rood.

 

It's almost as if the Brexiteers didn't quite think it all through...

 

Home Office admits it is struggling to recruit staff to register EU nationals

*facepalm*