1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Cooling Passion project to get the most out of old laptop - dual or quad upgrade?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by ModSquid, 11 Mar 2020.

  1. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    Me again - feel like I'm spamming the forums at the moment but I've got some time off so am clearing through my side projects...

    Just pulled apart my old laptop, which was still going fine, bit slow but only used for basic tasks and admin, but which had recently been overheating massively (102+). It's an Acer Aspire 6930G which I've upgraded the CPU on a few times. It's currently equipped with this:
    20200311_153110~2.jpg

    ... which for reference measures 13x9mm.

    I did buy one of these as an option for the last time I upgraded:
    20200311_153149~2.jpg

    ... but decided not to fit it as the two dies together measure 13x22mm (two widths of the same core as the first but with a 4mm gap) and this heatsink contact:

    20200311_153202~2.jpg

    ... measures 20x20mm across the copper, so I thought that may not be wise.

    Now, however, since the overheating issue turned out to be probably because the vents and internals were absolutely caked with dust and grot and I'm replacing CPU and GPU paste with Kryonaut (GPU is the original 9300M GS - was going to replace it for fun, but the 9300M GT and 9600M GT that are substitutes for this model look to have different chip layouts so seems like the GPU heatsink wouldn't fit, unless I could pull off the black tape on the left of the picture below:

    20200311_160933~2.jpg

    ...and replace with thermal pads...? It is simple to do, but for about £40-50ish), I'm wondering whether I'd be okay with a 1mm shortage on each side of the CPU, that would be in contact with the aluminium of the heatsink.

    So I think what I'm asking in an overly detailed way is:
    • Will a quad at 2.26 be any better than a dual at 3.06?
    • Will the undersized copper contact on the quad be an issue?
    • Should I bother with the GPU?
    It's basically a Windows 7 x86 4 GB fun computer with no taxing games on it but a lot of my work (main rig up on blocks at the moment - next project). Too much effort to move everything over to a new one, but I may create a new Win 10 x64 partition on the drive. It's really more of a project driven by affection for an elderly warhorse now in pasture.

    For bonus points, why did the GPU come with what looks like some really cruddy paste that seems to have coated the transistor-y looking things on the top of the die, next to the core (core has been cleaned)?

    20200311_135423~2.jpg

    It came off in pretty much one lump when I cleaned it up, so I assumed it was just cheap stuff and binned it... Hope it wasn't important!

    20200311_135506~2.jpg

    Welcome your (constructive) thoughts!

    Tra!
     
  2. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,919
    Likes Received:
    724
    Can't answer all your questions but did similar with an old vaio laptop here

    I felt with windows 10 that extra threads helped performance and that is with a chip that drops to 1.86Ghz, I still stuck with it over the high speed dual which does benchmark faster in many cases but in actual use more threads felt better to me using it for browsing. SSD was the thing to really help performance on the laptop more so than CPU.

    My vaio is still being used now by my missus when ever she wants to do something the iPad can't which is still a thing in 2020.

    Reckon that new GPU will be fine, black tape will just be to aid contact wirh thermal solution, but worth checking that laptop GPU actually brings something to the table, if it is just clockspeed you might be able to do that with software.

    Modern thermal pads are pretty good, perhaps use them on the CPU cores also to help contact to thermal solution.
     
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2020
    ModSquid likes this.
  3. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    8,414
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    ModSquid likes this.
  4. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    Good stuff - thanks both!

    I've already got an SSD in the machine, but think I might be RAMstrung (yep, just made it up!) by the DDR2. Browsing is a large part of its duties though, with hundreds of "to-do tabs" open, but I'm trying to manage that down.

    I'll probably remove the black tape over the GPU if I do replace it, as it looks like it might prevent contact between the aluminium heatsink and the new RAM chips - from what I can tell from online pictures, these are what would occupy the space on any new GPU. The existing ones contact the aluminium via pads, so this shouldn't be an issue (touch wood). Having said that, which software could I use to see if I can increase the clock - would Afterburner work?

    I think if I use pads AND Kryonaut (if that's what you meant), this might be similar to using too thick a paste and serve to insulate, rather than transfer the heat.

    Ah! So there is no danger of these shorting out if bridged by thermal paste? Do they even benefit from having it applied?
     
  5. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
  6. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,919
    Likes Received:
    724
    I was thinking more that you could use a pad from CPU to heatsink rather than anything in addition to it but perhaps a mod to the heatsink itself is in order.

    As its an old laptop there is probably some space margin to get creative with extra copper on the heatsink, either thermal epoxyed to current alu sink to make large copper heatplate, I have done similar with some cheapy offcuts, I managed to get some thin sheet on ebay from these guys https://www.metaloffcuts.co.uk/product-category/copper/ with a bit of clean up and polish it was great.

    Or if you are feeling really modtastic, you could make a new solid copper block.

    But in reality the 1mm to the alu will make no difference really once you have paste there, it'd work fine, just depend on whether you want to play. I'd test the chip in the machine first before doing anthing make sure there is bios support and the thing actually powers on.

    Yes afterburner should do it for overclocking GPU but digging out specs a 9600M GT is quite a jump up in in shaders and memory bandwidth over the 9300gs
     
  7. Bloody_Pete

    Bloody_Pete Technophile

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    8,414
    Likes Received:
    1,092
    It doesn't specify what axis this is in, nor its thermal resistannce.
     
  8. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    Okay, I bit the bullet and chucked the quad in with the Kryonaut (only because I had it to hand and wanted to move on to the next project). I looked into the Carbonaut pads and found out a few things:
    • They're designed to be as good as "mid-range" paste - couple of tests I saw had them a degree or two away from MX4 and about 3-5 from Kryonaut (not sure this would bother me)
    • They are a damn sight more convenient and cleaner, as well as reusable
    • The difference in thermal conductivity is offset by the thickness. Apparently even at the 0.2mm (?) thickness they come in, this still isn't as good as the microns that paste gets squished to when the heatsink is applied
    • For a laptop, they seem a good solution
    However, having put the machine back together, I can't get it to POST or even give a BIOS selection option. It makes the KVM switch beep to show recognition (somehow), some volume control lights come on and the CD spins up, but nothing on the screen, no drive light or access, no light to show Num Lock, removing the KVM VGA cable should make the display active but doesn't, changing display output does nothing and after 5 secs or so it shuts itself off, reboots to exactly the same state but this time just stays there doing nothing.

    Pushing the power button briefly makes it shut down, as if it doesn't need a hard 5 sec reset as they do normally from Windows, so I'm assuming this isn't a display issue where Windows has loaded in the background. I'm also assuming I put it back together correctly and connected everything (BIG assumption). So referring to sandys' comment earlier, does this mean the BIOS potentially doesn't support quads, even though the chipset etc. do? It's the only thing I can think of that makes sense. I tried looking for info online about which chips different BIOS versions for this machine support, in order to see if any support quads, but came up empty.

    Unless anyone can think of anything else, my only other option is to reinstall the X9100 and hope it boots and that I haven't borked anything!
     
  9. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...d-core-mobile-q9000-in-the-acer-6930g.445837/

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/acer-aspire-6930g-upgrade-from-t6400-to-q9100.695658/

    The above does all appear to be old speculation, but I don't think it's looking likely that the chip will be recognised, sadly. Seems the motherboard doesn't like quads. Back to the dual, then. What I find most disappointing is the time it takes to pull the system apart to reinstall, as I wanted to tick it off and move on to the next job!

    Never mind...

    Thank you very much to sandys and all who assisted though, good job all round!
     
  10. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    As an epilogue to close this one out, I put the X9100 dual-core back in with Kryonaut applied to both it and the GPU and that, coupled with the clearout of all the dust and grot has dropped my load temps by about 30-35C (thankfully). Now sits at mid-70s whilst working.

    Just shows what a bit of spring cleaning can do! Shame about that quad though...
     
  11. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    4,919
    Likes Received:
    724
    Missed the earlier posts, shame about the quad, I would have just run the chip without putting it back together to find out, saves assembly and strip down time, particularly when all you want to see is a post screen, won't be on long enough to cook, but never mind, it is done now, sounds like you have dropped temps etc so a little result :)
     
  12. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    2,570
    Likes Received:
    797
    In all honesty, I looked at the connectors and my brain couldn't cope with figuring out how to get power and graphics from the motherboard without mostly reassembling anyway, so I just went ahead and finished putting it back together in the hope it would work! Looking back at it, I think the battery would have been the bigger issue as it only runs off mains now anyway, due to its age.
     

Share This Page