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Modding How strong is soldering (for a case...)

Discussion in 'Modding' started by Morphious, 4 Nov 2004.

  1. Morphious

    Morphious What's a Dremel?

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    I'm going to be constructing a frame out of aluminum for my next computer case. I was wondering what the most efficient (cost-wise and simplicity, and obviously it must be strong enough) way of joining together the aluminum would be. I've considered soldering but thought that it was relatively weak - what other ways could I use to cleanly (as in I want completely smooth corners so that I can just put the stuff I'm using for the outside onto it and it will be smooth) join together the pieces of aluminum?

    Would soldering (on the inside of the thing) work, or would you suggest another method (bolting, riveting, etc..)?

    Edit - Just heard of some glue type stuff that's stronger than welding and lighter. Probably fairly expensive....but has anybody used such a product? What's it even called? :eyebrow:
     
    Last edited: 4 Nov 2004
  2. BBC309

    BBC309 What's a Dremel?

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  3. Manitowic999

    Manitowic999 What's a Dremel?

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    A two part epoxy would work good. I suggest 3M brand.
     
  4. shroom

    shroom What's a Dremel?

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    I suggest a two part epoxy as well, JB Weld is what I use.
     
  5. Morphious

    Morphious What's a Dremel?

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    Ah I knew there was some 'Weld' Epoxy stuff, I just couldn't remember the name of it at all!

    How strong is that stuff, and how easy to apply is it??? How quickly will it set? - Answered my own questions by looking on their site.

    And also, looking on their site....what kind should I get??? Should I just get the normal stuff or the Industro Weld stuff? (Which have you used)
     
    Last edited: 5 Nov 2004
  6. malcs

    malcs oops! i put a hole in the ***** :(

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    the problem with a two-part alloy is that it shatters easily (its happened to me before with a case made from aluminium :()
     
  7. Tos

    Tos What's a Dremel?

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    My 2 cents on aluminum soldering :

    Unless you have a powerful MIG + aluminum wire or TIG, don't even think about soldering. Aluminum requires extremely high temps to create a strong bond, and you're not gonna get it with a propane torch ( 600°C ). Oxy-Acetylic torches might do the trick, but they can distort the metal quite heavily (1300°C to 1600°C ).

    My suggestion : go for pop-rivetting or epoxy glue.
     
  8. Manitowic999

    Manitowic999 What's a Dremel?

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    Use any name brand "General" 2part epoxy. 3M has a very good line of it, and it's usually found at hardware stores.
     
  9. Tos

    Tos What's a Dremel?

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    Rivets is the easiest way to fix 2 parts together, all you need is :
    1 - drill
    2 - drilling bit, the appropriaite size for the rivets you're gonna use
    3 - rivet gun
    4 - rivets :)

    how to rivet :

    1 - mark the point where you wanna rivet, on part 1
    2 - drill said points
    3 - place drilled part over the 2d part to fix
    4 - mark points to drill on the 2d part with a felt tip pen
    5 - drill marked points on the 2d part
    6 - rivet the parts together using the rivet gun

    :D

    Welding is the strongest bond you can have between 2 parts, and the weight isn't really relevant ( few dozen grams at most )
     
  10. Emon

    Emon What's a Dremel?

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    To solder aluminum, you need a tin/zinc solder (or similar), regular solder won't stick to aluminum. And that wouldn't create satisfactory joints. Epoxy is really a half assed way to do it, I would suggest rivets. Don't even think about making a case from aluminum sheet metal, it's going to suck. Aluminum is not easy to work with. Instead make it out of aluminum angle and make an aluminum sheet cover. Rivet the frame together. But if you do use epoxy for anything, find one with the highest strength capacity, they rate it in thousands of pounds usually, where the bond is between two 1x1 inch squares of steel.
     
  11. Morphious

    Morphious What's a Dremel?

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    Key word there is frame - I am making the rest out of something else. :)
     
  12. Shadowspawn

    Shadowspawn Another hated American.

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    Everyone skipped right over the Alumiloy suggestion. I'm really curious about this. Has anyone actually worked with this material? Is it as strong as they say? I'm looking for something stronger than JB Weld, but easier than welding.

    Not trying to hijack the thread, this just caught my interest.
     
  13. boardsportsrule

    boardsportsrule What's a Dremel?

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    i would wire feed weld it... seriously... if u arein highschool, ur school's auto shop would have it, same in college and if you're an old fogie you probably got some hook ups thru a friend or something.... it will be so freakin strong!! :) any ways thats just me as i am in a welding/fab class and wirefeed welding seems like the way to go... then JB weld as its easier, but not as good...

    EDIT: after thinking, we use 1/4" metal as thinner would get messed up, i DOUBT you want ur case's structure to be 1/4" more like 1/8 or 1/16" umm that leaves ya with oxyfuel which would look quite nice, or even those things im not sure what they're called, they look like a big aligators mouth, with 2 poles you squeeze them together with ur metal betwen it, press a button and it heats it up so they become welded together, that would be really easy if you got the right hook ups..
     
  14. nick01

    nick01 What's a Dremel?

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    Screw the soldering

    Soldering Al never worked for me. Look at Aluminum extrusions, www.8020.net is one. There are many more, but the 8020 reps are the least arrogant when dealing with non-commercial users. For the Europeans there is www.minitech.de, but they are hard to work with. The extrusions have lovely 9/32" slots that just scream for 1/4" Acrylic panels to show off what you've got. Let the vendor do the cutting and drilling, wou will never get it that accurate at home and it doesn't cost that much. My cheapest box was around $140 and a fancy one $270 (2001 dollars). Each was big enough for 12+ 5.25 bays (my obsession) and a dedicated PS for illumination.
     
  15. metarinka

    metarinka What's a Dremel?

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    I'm going to second nick's Suggestion, as a welding and fabrication major, it would be very hard to solder aluminum, and that aluminoy stuff looks more like brazing (which would work). Optimally you would want to TIG or MIG weld the aluminum. IN theory you can do it with Gas welding, but In practice you would really hafta know what your doing.
    From a fabrication perspective, you must ask yourself, How Strong does this need to be, What are the tolerances, how heavy etc. Aluminum extrusions would be light and strong enough to make a simple Rectangular frame, From that I would use a heavier gauge of aluminum for the drive cages, and a light gauge for the walls (to save on weight) The extrusions can usually be bolted together, or you could Jbweld them. That would give you a really light weight case.
    final note, if you look in my project log, you'll see an aluminum L channel frame I made for part of my case, It's 1/8" thick pop riveted and It's holding about 20-30 pounds no problem. Cheers and good luck with what ever you decide
     
  16. ConKbot of Doom

    ConKbot of Doom Minimodder

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    Riveting would be the way to go. Aluminum is a pain to work with especially with close toleances like seams in a case. For welding it you would have to pretty much have all the frame pieces done, clamp them all together with tons of clamps. Tack weld each joint, then go around and tack each joint again. Then go around another time. Then finally weld the joint. Otherwise you would end up with the case out of square, or in the later joints you would get cracks as the other joints cooled.
    While you can use oxy-acetylene to weld aluminum with correct flux, the thought of using O/A on Al just makes me kind of shudder. It is hard enough to do when you have clear vision of the puddle and the arc, I wouldn't want to try it with flux over the joint boiling and what not. I havn't mig welded aluminum, but I have tig welded, and it isn't exactly easy either. I doubt you will be able to use nice equipment also, so it will be even more difficult. (Miller synchrowave=pwn)

    As for
    I'm not even sure if you can use resistive spot welding on aluminum, it conducts current so much better than steel, and transfers heat out a lot better. I would just expect the area around the contact tip to oxidise as it gets hot, and then just fall apart. Steel is nice in that it has the stages as it warms up where it become softer and easy to work, and aluminum starts getting soft at realtively cool temps, but not really malleable, it will just kind of tear if you work it too hard.

    Talk to a machine shop and see if you can make a billet frame ;)
     
    Last edited: 12 Nov 2004

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