How the Xbox 360 affects PC gamers

Read ATI's specs: http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx800/RADEONX800ArchitectureWhitePaper.pdf

Go to page six for the vertex shader configuration, and check the diagram, counting the number of ALU's.

Go to page ten for the pixel shader configuration, check the diagram.

If we use ATI's method of counting, we could technically say that R500 has 96 ALU's. (48 x 2 - one vector, one scalar per pipeline)

Edit: maths is not my greatest asset late at night. Consequently, I should've said 92 ALU's last night, not 96.

 

I know all the specs sound great, integrated this...20Gb that. I was working as the purchaser for a Video/Game Rental store during the PS2-Xbox-Dreamcast release era, and tons of specs were tossed around then as well. Are PCs still around? Obviously. Are they still used for the same things as before? Clearly. Is there a word processor for Xbox/PS2? Not really (Linux, I know, but is it really affecting the use of a PS2?). Do people still game on PCs? Most definitely.

I think consoles are great. I think tech innovation for consoles is great. But the hype surrounding these releases is insane. How long did it take for the actual HDD for the PS2 to come out? Release claimed it would be available (I think within 6 months USA was the claim at PS2 release, could be wrong tho).

Personally the PSP is the only hardware IMO that lived up to its specs/release hype. Hopefully the 360 can, but do you really think a device with only 20Gb and unified architecture will replace a PC? It will undoubtedly be VERY good at graphics and physics, but we all use PCs for many more things in play/business/hobby.

I'm not a fanboy or hater, I just remember the hype surrounding the first Xbox and PS2.

 

I remember he ps2 being marketed with what was it called ? the emotion engine I think with the handcontroller that would give feedback well ok the screens on grand turismo 3 where nice and playing colin macrae rally did give you a rumble in your hand but it didnt emote me more than usual

 

I just think charging for connecting the current xbox to the xbox live network was the big downfall. I honestly don't care enough about multiplayer x-box gaming to pay for live. Why spend $50/month on broadband, then $20 on top of that for xbox live? (I haven't played xbox live, so I am speaking with no experience.)

If I could use Valve's Steam with the xbox 2 without paying MS, then I'd buy it when it first came out, but I was somewhat dissappointed with the initial xbox. It is fun for all my FPS, racing, and of course Namcomuseum, but for "real" gaming I use my new laptop.

I think microsoft is making a giant leap here, and I think the specs look very impressive. While the console is cheaper, the lack of uses kills the enthusiasm for me. I mean, it's cool that if I bougth a microsoft media center PC, I could play media from it, but isn't that what a media center PC does anyway without the xbox360? But what about my divx collection? what about my mp3's? what about my .png's? what about my non-microsoft file formats and apps?

The best thing about xBox is modding it to be more open to new formats and functionality. Microsoft opened it up a bit, but only to microsoft formats. Unfortunately the extent of my microsoft enthusasm ends at Windows XP pro. When the community is allowed free reign, I'll jump on it, but as it stands, closed as tightly as it is, I'll probably wait for it to drop in price before considering.

Besides, isn't it fun to hack up HL2 with custom mods and patches? Downloading updates and mods from unauthorized sources?

I applaud microsoft for it's efforts and accomplishments, but it still doesn't look to be replacing my PC anytime soon.

 

personally i find the original xbox to be a waste of time, sure there are 1 or 2 decent games, but i remember when they were asking £300 for them, they didnt sell so they dropped it to £200 (nearly got one then) and they said they'd refund other people the £100! i mean, that is desperate!

i think that the xbox360 will be like the original xbox, will go well for the first month (hype) then crash!

"liquid cooling" im sorry, heatpipes cant REALLY be classed as liquid cooling as they are actually convection coolers!

i think that microsoft are going to have loads of stupid ass protection on the xbox 360, meaning you can only watch certain things on it (no divx/xvid) no illegal MP3's or ripped mp3's etc etc

and the worst bit will be (which i fear they will do) is do a steam-like thing, when they see enough people using xbox live, they will introduce a system so when you want to play you have to be online etc etc, which will reduce illegal copies etc, but also reduce players feelings, steam truly p!$$'d me off the other day, wanted to join my own 24 player server "your game isnt up to date" "content server 35" "please wait 94 minutes" i said f*** it and decided id rather try my luck, exit steam and restart it, then i joined "content server 1" thinking FINALLY, then "sorry the server is too busy"

getting hacked off now! wasting time to play a game i legally bought and just want to join my legally owned server... but no, i have to wait for steam to stop pissing around!!!

if microsoft introduce a system like that, i doubt people will go with it, xbox live is bad enough as it is with people having to pay to get a subscription, why couldnt it be like pc games, just get the game, updates etc etc, then join a server and start blowin' people away (say joint operations, battlefield vietnam, 1942)

i mean, the specs of the machine look AMAZING to say the least, but why the hell arent we seeing this tech in PC's, what was here first! pc's or consoles?

where do microsoft make their money, pc's or consoles?, where do nvidia make their money, pc's or consoles?, where do ATI make their money? pc or consoles... i think you'll find the answers to all the questions is in PC's not consoles

the console market is pretty pointless at the moment, ive got 2 ps2's and a few games, and i feel that the ps2 is very restrictive, i would love to be able to watch say DIVX's on it!

i doubt the xbox360 will be able to play DIVX's and what not, but i just hope someone hack the os, it would be nice to see XP or equivelent on it to be able to use it as a natural PC

i want to see what sony will have to fight back with ("cell" multicore CPU) and i want to see how long it will be before Apple get into the business!

 

You might be surprised at ATI's share [cdrinfo.com] of the consumer electronics market, of which console systems are a part.

Just because products haven't been branded with a logo, doesn't mean they don't have a hand in them.

 

I'm surprised so many people are asking where microsoft is going to make there money on the 360. For one..there not going to lose a MAJOR MAJOR amount of money on each console. Not only do they have a company that is producing there videocard (buy direct from them + bulk) but they have ties in with tons of different companies. They can buy most of there stuff for cheap, in bulk, outside of the consumer market and they know they can. They'll lose whatever they need (its microsoft..they can afford it) but there not going to lose THAT much. They get money from games, probly ati for advertising, xboxlive, all there after release Peripherals and Upgrades. I highly doubt they're going to lose that much (or even anything) within the first year of the 360.

 

Let's stay on topic please...

 

I've read that the hard drive will be removable and upgradable

 

Theres one reason i can think of that this product wount hurt the pc market. Updates. Yes i know it has a HDD to store updates but so did the xbox and the only thing that ever updated was xbox live. i mean, like the farcry 1.3 patch was awesome with the introduction of HDR(visually stunning). you wount get that kidn of stuff on an xbox because you dont install the game.

 

i am dubious about the new XBOX as its specs seem too good to be true

 

Well let's face it, the large majority of people that will be buying the new xbox will only know "games looks better", and not have the slightest clue about the tech that lets it happen. that said, it's impressive, and hopefully will have positive effects on the PC gaming market (ie multi-core/proc support) rather than negative (developers focus much more on console game development). The thing that's a real problem for PC users with this kind of stuff is that it's FAR easier to develop a game for a console than a PC, because there's only one hardware config and only a couple graphics settings. They don't need to account for people using FX5200s or SLI 6800Ultra's either at 640x480 or 2048x1536 4xAA 8xAF (oh that sounds tasty...)

Console gaming has completely lost any appeal to me. One because there's only one decent TV in the house and I couldn't get extended access to it if I wanted to, but mostly because PCs are just so much more multifunctional. And I hardly have the amount of customization on a controller than a keyboard.

considering the ahrdware specs the price seems amazing, but that still all comes back to you don't need to have any sort of compatibility, it's ALWAYS the same hardware set. It's exactly the same chip in exactly the same mobo using the same type and amount of ram, running the same software. And for the hard and optical drives, when you're buying ten million at a time, you get a hefty bulk-rate discount. I would certainly love to see more of this tech emerge in PCs, but the reality is that console gaming is just more popular, and it's just common marketing sense from there on in.

 

i'm a bit of a console convert, tbh.

it's simpler. whack a disc in and it works, no faff, no upgrading, no nothing. just play.

i love my computer. but i'm not gonna spend upwards of £1000 upgrading it with components to reach a level of graphical finesse that the xbox 360 offers for £300, when in all other areas i am more than satisfied with my system's performace.

 

for those that missed UMA the first time


http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=define:+UMA&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

lets hope using GDDR3 will make a big difference.

 

The only reason consoles arent that good at the moment imho is the graphics. Its not that there awfull, its just that theres better on offer on a decent spec PC. If the 360 can churn out a decent res (which it looks set to do, with HD resolutions like 720p/1080i and all the hardware so it seems to back it up) then it will probably end PC gaming for me. Sure, your gonna need an HDTV ready display to take advantage of it which for a lot of people is simply too much of an outlay, but times are changing with Sky set to launch their HDTV service in 2006, and a lot of manufacturers launching fairly low cost HD ready CRT displays this year. "High Deff" is rapidly becoming the new buzz word, and its only going to fuel the 360 hype. (Or the other way round)

I personally cant wait. This is exactly the the sort of thing thats needed to kick the UKs HD market up the arse (along with HD-DVD/Blueray etc). Were still years behind everyone else, and the sooner more kit starts arriving the better.

Id much rather play games with the convenience a console offers, and if the graphics are up to scratch, then the battle is won imho.

 

great you go play your Halo 17 while i play hl3 with my mouse and keyboard.

Xbox 2 isn't going to change the world, exactly the same way the xbox didn't. people will still want to play proper FPS's on the pc since the control system is better.

 

Well that just sums it all up . Kinda what I tried to say but you just had a much more eloquent way of putting it

 

i agree, i find that the mouse makes it 100 times easier to shoot because you can move it faster and is more precise than a joystick. although if that is the reason some ppl arent turning to the 360 microsoft might just make a wireless keyboard-type-device and mouse for the 360, that way its the best of both worlds.

 

Who said it would change the world?
Using a mouse and keyboard for FPS's is definately better than using a joypad, but having a platform (a rather expensive one at that) for the sole purpose of playing one genre of game seems a bit OTT to me. I suppose if your really into FPS's then its not an issue.

As mattthegamer463 also mentioned, i would be pretty surprised if a mouse/keyboard wasn't made available for it. Can't you already use them for PS2s?

Dont get me wrong, im not saying everyone needs to bin their PCs and rush out and buy an Xbox360 to replace it with, but for me personally with my gaming habits (fairly casual) its makes more sense to buy a well specced console for the same price as a high end graphics card. There would have to be decent set of PC only games i felt i was missing out on to make me think otherwise.

 

the GPU has 10MB of DRAM embedded into teh core. "free" AA.

don't worry, UMA is nothing to be scared of when implemented properly