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Motors 1,000 watts RMS, what sub(s)?

Discussion in 'General' started by Wicked_Sludge, 8 Nov 2016.

  1. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    Greetings all! It's been a while since I've visited the forums but I find myself facing a small dilemma and I figured I'd gather some opinions from a trusted source.

    I've got a Rockford Fosgate P1000-1BD in my Focus that I am trying to pair a sub with. Last month I ordered an Alpine Type-R SWR-10D2, rated at 1,000w RMS and 3,000w peak which should have been a perfect match for my amp. But after break in, I set the gain with a DVOM and the sub quickly began to overheat and smell like an electrical fire.

    It's possible that I got a defective sub, but I really feel like the subs performance was underwhelming for 1,000w. I've heard systems with half that power rating that seemed to hit harder.

    So I'm open to suggestions for subwoofers. I am open to running 10's or 12's, but I need to be able to present a 1-ohm load to my amp. I'd like to stay under $200 for one sub, or $300 for 2. Should I try and stick with one powerful sub (limited options for ~1,000w RMS) or should I go with 2 less powerful drivers? Should I give the Type-R another chance and get 2 SWR-10D4?
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2016
  2. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    I had a so called 1000w JBL in my car in a folded horn. Same burning smell you reported, turns out the coil melted and the braid wires literally fused together. Crap.

    RMS has been a lie for years. 1000w RMS means 24 hours a day seven days a week etc.

    RE audio are supposed to be very good. I personally used to use Cerwin Vega but I think good ones would run above your budget? not looked in a while man. It would probably be easier to present 1 ohm with dual 2 ohm coils.

    Don't forget though that it sometimes isn't because of power that you suffer failures. Sealed enclosures can cause excessive heat and glue etc to fail. Plus then distortion and anything else.

    Are your enclosures ported? because ported subs tend to live a much happier life.
     
  3. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    If memory serves, the birth certificate for the amp is something like 1200w RMS. Even if I don't push the sub particularly hard it will start to heat up and smell quite fast. Within 10-15 minutes.

    I'm running a ported enclosure. To be honest I'm looking more for SPL than SQ, and ported usually helps in that department.

    I saw a lot of RE sub's on amazon but honestly the last system I built was circa 2006 so I didn't recognize them. I'll take a look at their offerings when I get home this evening.

    Do you think I should try and stick with one sub or would I have better luck running two with that amp?
     
  4. fuus

    fuus Rocking All Year Christmas

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  5. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    This is the sub I have: http://alpine-usa.com/product/view/swr-10d2

    Alpine claims 250-1000w RMS and 3000w peak...which should be a good match for my amp but I'm starting to doubt Alpines claims.

    I contacted the seller on Amazon and they told me since its past my 30 day return period the best they can offer is to repair the sub. That kinda screws me for running a dual sub setup since I'd be stuck running 2 ohms.

    EDIT: fuus, I believe that's the previous generation of the sub I have.
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2016
  6. creative

    creative 500rwhp

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    how do you have it wired in? Thats where I would be starting.
     
  7. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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  8. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    Are you 100% sure? I only ask as in your first post you definitely quoted the unit fuss linked to which is 50-500rms 1,500peak.

    Worth a double check on the driver just to be sure?
     
    Last edited: 9 Nov 2016
  9. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    I put a pair of 12 inch subs in my boot:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    Are you running a powercap & additional battery?

    The fastest way to burn out a sub (ignoring the obvious of throwing far too much power through it) is feeding it a dirty signal.
    If you're not getting enough power to your amp (or your source is really distorted) you can burn out the coil even at low(ish) wattage.

    If you put a dummyload on the amp, can you measure the output?
     
  11. asura

    asura jack of all trades

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    :clap:
     
  12. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    With an amp like that you are going to need what I refer to as an "inner tube speaker". One of those ridiculous things made out of 1/4" cardboard with a coil that looks like 240v solid copper mains cable (like a Cerwin Vega Stroker for example).

    Sadly Strokers are around $800 or so if memory serves.

    You are either going to have to decrease the GAIN on the amp to virtually nothing and then lay off the volume knob or buy a sub that matches the prowess of your amp.

    http://www.cerwinvegamobile.com/products/mobile-audio/subwoofers/stroker-pro-woofers

    Something like that or a Orion HCCA.

    Edit. OUCH ! lmao

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/CERWIN-VEGA...990828?hash=item3d1303562c:g:nzkAAOSwPc9W04Gi
     
  13. creative

    creative 500rwhp

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    also gain is not volume control ;)

    Sounds like your just spanking to much through it and without knowing how you have it set up we can only speculate.
     
  14. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

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    No GAIN is not volume control but it drastically reduces the load put into the speaker if you lower it.

    I used to use a Marc Antony amp that Cerwin Vega put out under that guise. It was massive (over 2ft long IIRC) and was so powerful that it welded a JBL shut. I put in a Rockford Fosgate punch woofer and again it was just being thrashed close to death (you could smell the coil). So I dropped the gains and laid off the volume and it held on long enough to be sold in the car.

    Your problem here mate is current. Your amp has a whole crapload of it and you are putting serious current through the coil which is obviously not up to the job. You need something built like a brick out house and that is going to cost you.
     
  15. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    I am 100% sure. I typed my original post from memory. Will edit for corrections.

    I do not have an additional battery or cap. I have done "the big 3" on the car. I do not believe the sub is clipping while the overheating and smelling is occurring. I can certainly make it clip, but I generally don't push it that hard. I don't have any way to put a dummy load on the amp.

    Those are some craaaazy drivers but obviously way out of my price range. I'm not trying to win any sound competitions. I'm guessing my best bet at this point to avoid having to shell out $1200 on a sub is to run multiple smaller ones.

    Since I am kind of stuck with the Alpine now, I guess I'll see if the Amazon seller would be willing to trade my 2-ohm sub for a 4-ohm one and allow my to purchase a second. I'll just have to be happy with whatever I can get out of 2 of those Alpines.
     
  16. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    Id check the coils, they may have just gotten hot an smelly rather than melted, gain should be low as possible anyway.
    Clipping will be signal quality/gain issues which are always bad for the sub and amp an point to a problem with other parts of the system. What is the headunit? Could be something giving a crappy 1.5v preout into the amp. Ideal world you want strong as you can get which means the gain is lower. I made sure I got a 5V pre out an decent interconnects.

    Also worth checking voltage drop under load, I used to run three amps wit ha second battery to help avoid it.
     
  17. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    My head unit is an older Clarion. It's not top of the line by any stretch (and only 1.8v preamps) but I have really enjoyed owning it. It plays so clearly and really makes even stock speakers really come alive. This is the 3rd car I've put it in :hehe:

    Eventually I plan on installing a second battery in the trunk to help with voltage sag during high draw instances, I just haven't gotten there yet (the system is a work in progress).

    My Amazon seller has agreed to an exchange. So it looks like I'll be running two Alpine SWR-10D4 sub's wired for 1-ohm. I really hope they wow me more than the single sub did.

    Thanks to everyone who chipped in. I wish I'd realized I'd be stuck with the Alpine sooner.
     
  18. legoman

    legoman breaker of things

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    Just had a quick look at your amp, it only gives 1000W at 1 ohm so if your running two subs off it at 1 ohm they will only see 0.5 ohms. which on that amp is running a bit close to shorting .1 ohm will give 500W loading.
    Not saying it wont work, just be careful.
     
  19. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    I'm exchanging my original sub for two sub's that have dual 4-ohm voice coils. Each sub will be wired for 2-ohm and then they will be wired to present a 1-ohm load at the amp. Should be alright...
     
  20. Wicked_Sludge

    Wicked_Sludge My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

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    Well, it was awful rude of me not to follow up on this thread. For those who care, this is the ridiculousness produced from this project:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    My first time making a custom box. It's not pretty (I do plan on covering it in roll-on bed liner eventually), but it makes a shitload of noise and I have little doubt that it could support the entire weight of my car :D Yes, it weighs 111lbs with subs.
     
    Vault-Tec likes this.

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