10-year-old girl Tasered

Firstly.... if you read my post, you will realise I did in fact go off topic into a general rant about child discipline, which I still firmly believe is correct.

Secondly, I'm not advocating the police taser children. Nor was I saying the police should be called out to punish naughty children... however, he was there, and was being physically abused, and I'm quite sure he did what he thought appropriate. I doubt the policeman has a habit of tasering kids. Like I said, I've witnessed first hand how difficult it can be to restrain a child that is completely out of control - it took 3 adults to restrain the child. We know nothing about this cop. Not all cops are 6ft, 220lbs and can crush a walnut with their testes.

My main point was really not about this particular story, but how we feel revulsion about physically punishing kids lately, and how this culture breeds a lack of discipline.

With regard to your scenario: I do have a daughter (9 yrs). If she displayed any kind of tantrum over something like not being able to play the Wii, she would get a slap across the legs.. once she's calmed down, I'd explain to her why she got a slap across the legs, and that if she does it again, she'll get another slap across the legs. In my mind, that is more effective than just explaining to her why what she did was wrong, because at some point she'll realise that actually... nothing is going to happen other than her not being allowed to play the Wii... which isn't really a great punishment when you stop and think about it. My daughter is happy, well adjusted, and doing very well in school. I think this is so because she has been disciplined, and respects the wishes of adults. Also... my daughter is half Singaporean, and has a Singaporean mother, and is brought up more in line with Singaporean culture... a culture where you don't get chavs scratching your car... kids abusing teachers, and one where there's a good, solid work ethic and respect for authority.

No.. I don't think it's a great idea to tase kids.... but given a choice between forced to do more than merely restrain, and starting to think about actually delivering force to subdue someone regardless of age, I think it may be easier to leap that moral hurdle if you don't actually have to hit or punch someone else's child - I think he probably preferred the method that didn't mean he had to live with doing something with his hands... hitting, punching etc..

Right or wrong... I can only imagine there's more to this than the article relays. I really doubt the cop just waltzed in and tasered a child. I think this is highly selective journalism at it's best... and it seems to have worked.

 

From what I've read, it already had escalated to that by the time he arrived. Think about it, if you have to subdue a 10 year old you probably don't want to rugby tackle them, pin them to the ground, and cuff them tightly. You'd probably go as softly-softly as possible. Then, the child kicks you in the balls, and regardless of the fact that it's a 10 year old, that probably at least partially incapacitates you (as I think most guys who've been kicked in the balls will attest to). At that point, it's obvious that the child is not going to be taken down peaceably, and if you're in a lot of pain and not necessarily able to safely subdue the child (A struggle could end up with someone's head being smacked off the toilet, or the sink, or even on the floor) - so you use what's available to you, you tazer them briefly, they're subdued, and both you and the child are safe.

I'm not generally in favour of tazering, and I dislike the escalation of their distribution and use among police forces, however in this case (and this case only) it seems like the use of a tazer might have actually been the best approach. Probably beats smacking the kid 3 or 4 times with a truncheon.

 

He should have saved that for the mother.

 

This is being taken out of context.

The parent should have a set of balls or should have aborted/given up for adoption if they couldnt cope and had to call the police in.

either way, that cop has taken the decision to tase a kid, and frankly i am not surprised, or wildy mortified.

TL;DR
Take care of your kids or i will tase them.

 

This is why "Chav" parents shouldnt have kids, they waste police time, and cant even keep their own ******* kids in check.

So the copper used reasonable force, fair play. That's their job, assess the situation try not to esculate it. end it quickly and make sure everyone is "unharmed" - I use that term loosly as the pain would have subsided after a couple of minutes, and would have been better than Mace/pepper spray.

 

Agreed, parents do seem to have forgotten that it is their job as parents to actually raise their children rather then let them act like brats.

 

Do you think i didn't notice the ranting?

Do you realise the implied contradictions the paragraph i have quoted here has?

You're sure it was what "he thought appropriate"? Are you suggesting tasering was apprpriate?
You're not saying "police should be called out to punish naughty children" but "he was there"? So does that make it ok? And he wasn't just there, he was called there, no need to try and twist anything.

lets give him a medal

Upset children must be restrained Would you like a straight jacket perhaps?

I agree, but this wasn't a situation where he was forced to do anything, unless the mother had a gun pointed at his head.

He did so something pretty bad with his hands. Maybe not his bare skin, but using a gun, knife, nightstick, taser, are all hand operated devices.

Regardless of what really happened, this selective journalism has some bit tech members for example, supporting the alleged actions of this police officer

 

Well he could have shot her. Tazer is better than a beatin or man handling.

On a serious note: The parents shouldn't rely on the police to handle their child.

 

If someone is physically attacking you, you're forced to do something. Are you advocating that he just sits their patiently while the child beats him senseless? I'm sure if the child was not presenting any real threat he wouldn't have resorted to using such force.

I think some people on here also assume that every 10 year old child is a sweet and innocent, essentially harmless creature that plays with dolls and dresses up in mommy's shoes and make-up.

I also think some people are predisposed to believing the Police to be evil, fascist power mongers who like to dominate people.

AS A PARENT I can assure you now that if any child of mine was physically assaulting a Police officer, they're welcome to taser them.

 

With you so far.

Do you have any experience of child care? I've taught in three schools and led a youth camp, and believe me, if a child is throwing a tantrum, you do not ignore them unless you actually want them to scream themselves hoarse and break things to get your attention. Your argument falls down on a crucial point here; that ignoring the tantrum was the logical course of action. Says who? You know nothing about the specifics of this child, who suffers evidently from behavioural difficulties. I'm not trained in childcare for 'difficult' kids but I have experience of working with them and I contest your assertion that left to their own devices things become better. The child was taken, at her mother's request, apparently, to a shelter. This is not a 'normal' child and what would work for any other 10 year old might not be necessarily appropriate.

Yes, the police have a role in disciplining children - usually when they dial 999 for fun (which I did when I was six) and when they wander away from their parents. What stranger? This was her mother ordering her around. In this case, she assaulted the cop; that's not contested.

True. Does that not suggest to you that there may be more to this than a sadist parent?

Those are utterly incomparable. She indeed was not in a clocktower with a sniper rifle, but at the same time that doesn't mean that tasering her was not a valid response to the situation. I'm not suggesting that it was in any way intelligent, but that doesn't mean the guy deserves to be jailed.

No, I was born stupid.

What on earth does 'regardless of what really happened' mean? My whole point is that since you don't know many of the material facts, passing judgement is premature. If you want to indulge in fantasyland divorced from the facts of what 'really happened,' please, be my guest, but at least point that out at the beginning. Also, I'm not supporting his actions, I'm just suggesting that you need all the facts before you declare him hell-bound.

 

If a child attacks a police officer, then that's one thing, but a police officer coming into your home, trying to force your 10 year old girl, who is in the middle of a tantrum, to have a shower and go to bed for example?

Even if it was a 5 year old girl, she could still easily give any man a punch in the balls that would seriously hurt! Disciplining children is one thing, but you can't expect to force them to comply in under 5 seconds! I don't think anyone can condone the police officer's actions, unless they themselves experienced being tasered when throwing a tantrum at around 10 years old - we all threw tantrums at that age, at least once - and can explain how the event was a wise parenting decision.

 

Approximately 16 years experience, to this day - i'm usually pretty good at resolving all sorts of conflicts with kids - teenagers are a little more difficult to deal with, and adults more so. Ignoring the child and their tantrums often puts the tantrum to an end pretty quickly, and punishing them appropriately, immediately after they've settled down is a good choice.

The cop is the stranger, and the cop was the one doing the assaulting.

Yes, a sadist cop.

You'd taser your 10 year old daughter for a bedtime tantrum?

Maybe not, but a month in the slammer wouldn't be too extreme.

Because all we are discussing so far, are the alleged events. Of course i don't think we should throw him in jail without a proper investigation, the actual circumstances could be a world away from the report and probably are - we're just discussing the scenario we have been presented with.

 

Absolutely pathetic excuse from the officer, he got kicked in the nuts... she's 10! And tasering her to 'bring her under control'? Happy trigger finger me thinks.

I completely disagree with what he did, it was well over the top and not needed under any circumstances.

 

Basically, IMNEERHO (In My Never, Ever Even Remotely Humble Opinion) we are dealing here with epic parent fail and on a larger scale epic societal fail.

It is clear that the parent felt unable to contain their 10-year old anymore. Perhaps she really is that ineffectual (not unlikely), or perhaps she has just burnt out being left to deal on her own (note how dad was off the scene) with a 10-year old who has "emotional difficulties" (i.e. challenging behaviour problems --either as a consequence of learning difficulties or ineffectual parenting in the first place). Either way she perceived calling the police as the only remaining course of action.

The cop probably should have backed out as soon as he sussed the situation: just an ineffectual mother dealing with a wayward 10-year old. But he could probably not just walk away because if mom then snaps and takes a baseball bat to daughter dear and puts her in hospital, he will be in trouble for it. But the correct way to deal with this stuff is to de-escalate mom, and then the child (in that order), not to act as her disciplinary reinforcement.

There is no point at this time to start enforcing discipline. Discipline left the house a long time ago. Any punishment you exert on the child at this time will just be experienced by it as an abusive might-makes-right scenario, because the framework of boundaries within a securely attached relationship (i.e. authority, but one that is experienced as trustworthy and caring and therefore as fair and valued) is missing.

Pookeyhead's disciplining his daughter works because it is against the backdrop of her knowing from experience that he cares about her and would not smack her randomly or without a very good reason. Therefore she cares about his approval and she knows that when she gets a smack it must be her fair due: she must have done something pretty bad (and to prevent confusion, he tells her what that was).

But I think it would not work here because that context is missing. I suspect that the child frequently has power stand-offs with mum (in which they battle for the role of the subduer vs subdued --winner vs loser), in which case she is more battle-hardened than the cop will ever be. He may have tasered her into submission, but he will have taught her nothing. So this time mum won: she managed to get hold of a bigger stick, metaphorically speaking. Oh, well, on to the next fight. This time I'll really show her...

All the cop did was what the posters in this forum do: collude with this dynamic, be the stick and take sides in the stand-off (note some posters here also taking sides with the child, while some take sides with the mother and cop). He should have been careful not to take sides (in fact, have been very clear that he wouldn't take sides), but de-escalate the stand-off rather than jump in and get his 'nads kicked. If mom could have calmed down and walked away from the fight and left daughter to lie on the floor screaming, the stand-off would soon have petered out.

The societal fail is that a not too resourceful parent was left to raise a child with behavioural difficulties by herself. Calling the cops was an act of desperation: "I can't cope with her anymore. You deal with it". In that respect she got what she wanted: someone has taken the child off her. It's easy for the dad to protest --he appears to have been conspicuously absent. Pity it took this drama for the mother and child to get the help they need.

 

Yeah OK.. the cop is a sadist... you win.


(yawn)

 

No, he was suckered. He's probably a dad who basically has sound ideas about child rearing and guessed that what this out-of-control child needs is a firm hand and some discipline. He is not wrong, but he was not in the position to give it. At that point, nobody was.

At that point, all you can try is to contain and de-escalate the conflict for now. Later you can slowly try to start building the attachment context within which boundaries, punishment and discipline actually make coherent sense. That may take months to years.

 

That wasn't aimed at Nexxo... it was in reply to...


"

Yes, a sadist cop."

No idea what went wrong there.

 

I may not be up to date on how big ten year olds wrists are, but.. I'm pretty sure adult cuffs - The kind cops carry - Aren't going to be that hard to get out of, with a ten year olds wrist and hand size.

I can see WHY he tasered her, the situation could get out of hand faster than it ought to have.

I don't AGREE with tasering her - She's only ten, after all.

The cop did do the wrong thing, in that he didn't just turn around and leave, or mediate the argument between mother and daughter, there probably wasn't call for him to get physically involved.

However, the mother needs to take some sort of parenting class - Coercing a ten year old to shower might not be the easiest of things, but by god, a parent really should know how to manipulate their child into following the rules.

I'd say yes, cop was wrong to taser, but mother was more wrong to involve them in the first place.

 

I still can't believe that people are trying to justify tasing a 10 year old girl.

You do know that a taser can kill people, right?

 

You can kill someone with most anything. Your point?