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12 killed in shooting at satirical newspaper office in Paris

Discussion in 'Serious' started by rainbowbridge, 7 Jan 2015.

  1. Landy_Ed

    Landy_Ed Combat Novice

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    "vapid way to use a pen" is, I think, his point. I suspect he is more concerned about the effect than the cause (and the form it takes)

    I'm interpreting this strip as meaning "just because you can, does that mean you should?"
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    This is something i don't understand either, recently I've heard people say that we wouldn't stand for anti-Semitic cartoons but they seem to be missing the point.

    The Semite are a race of people, no ?
    Islamists are people that follow a certain religion, yes ?
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Judaism is a religion. So is Islam. Even though both are often made out to be ethnic groups because the faith is conventionally "inherited". Followers of Islam are Muslims. What is colloquially referred to as Islamists are radicals who claim to follow an extremist interpretation of Islam. Muslims generally do not consider them representative of Muslims or of mainstream Islam.



    The cartoon suggests that offending people for no other reason than because it's your right to offend is puerile, and that knowingly pissing people off is not a path to mutual tolerance and understanding. Basically: the price of being wise is that you have to be wise.

    On a personal note, I used to think that these were hilarious:

    [​IMG]

    They are a piss-take on the Ichthus symbol that some Christians put on their car:

    [​IMG]

    Then I had an upsight: although personally I think that advertising one's faith on one's car is a bit, well, cheesy, does that mean that I have to counter with advertising my philosophical stance in a way that mocks theirs? Is that not a bit childish? After all what business is it of mine whether someone sticks an Ichthus on the boot of their car? What is it that I feel the need to retaliate to, except to affirm my smug superiority as a rational atheist? I decided that sticking a Darwin symbol on my car would be immature. It would mock Christians while not in any way confirming my philosophy (in fact, it would detract from it) or enriching my life.

    As Landy_Ed says: Just because you can, does that mean you should? Wisdom is being able to see the difference.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  4. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    There's nothing one can do about their origin or race. Any religion is a chosen belief system. Just like any political leanings. As such religion should not be given special privilege in terms of scrutiny, ridicule or satire.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    No, but people deserve some mutual respect.
     
  6. Gunsmith

    Gunsmith Maximum Win

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    respect is earnt/lost on actions, not belief.
     
  7. Landy_Ed

    Landy_Ed Combat Novice

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    Semite is a wider grouping, drawn on regional rather than religious lines, but defined and identified in Genesis, which gives it a religious flavour, just one from before Judaism came about.

    (edit, which might help or confuse further)

    One of the most amusing things about the catholic/protestant divides is that Roman Catholics are Catholics. So are Protestants. Yet the people that spout the worst bile and do the worst things in the name of either do not understand that.
     
  8. Porkins' Wingman

    Porkins' Wingman Can't touch this

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    The way I see it, all communication is an attempt to influence your thinking. That fish symbol is communication and advertising. The human brain tends to be drawn to the new and unusual, so when in traffic your eyes fall on these fish symbols whether you like it or not. And once you've seen something, as we well know from the Demote thread, it can't be unseen. they've made it your business by putting it somewhere where you're going to see it. The *******s.

    That's the trouble with communication. You receive it unsolicited and have little option other than to remove yourself from the situation or get sucked in to communicating back.

    You've unwittingly had someone else's opinion thrust down your throat. And as such, I think you're well entitled to respond in any way you like. An eye for an eye or not.

    I don't think it would be pointless to display the Darwin badge though, as comedy and satire are key methods for opening people's eyes to things. A kid sees a fish on a car and wonders why it's there. Same kid sees your Darwin creature on a car and links it to the fish. Lo and behold said kid is well on the road to understanding what one of the key debates about religion is all about.

    Imagine if no-one mocked politicians. You'd have kids growing up thinking these people were respectable role models.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  9. Landy_Ed

    Landy_Ed Combat Novice

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    I must be too simple. I see that fish on a car and I expect random and selfish driving behaviour. I see that fish with the word "darwin" in it and I expect aggressive and selfish driving behaviour. :D
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I know what you mean: what makes you a better person is not what you believe in, but how you behave. But newborn babies, children, strangers we don't know have not had the opportunity to prove themselves by their actions yet. Until then we need to give each other some credit, so to speak; cut each other some slack. Else we are saying that per default fellow human beings deserve no respect or consideration at all.

    I agree, but the wise person considers how to respond and why. You can ignore the communication, for instance, or choose to interpret it in a compassionate manner.

    The best way to provide a child with wise and good role models is to be that model, not to mock the models that are not.

    I am reminded of Terry Pratchett's argument for not hitting stupid people, even if you feel they really deserve it:

    1. It only makes the world a little better for a very short time;
    2. After that, it makes the world a little worse;
    3. You're not supposed to be as stupid as they are.

    ISWYDT! :D
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  11. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    To be honest, I usually see the BMW badge first. Then I expect to see aggressive and selfish driving behaviour. Quite often it's also pretty random.
     
  12. Gunsmith

    Gunsmith Maximum Win

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    i see the same with with audi badges
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I drive a Skoda, which is like wearing a halo TBH. :p
     
  14. Burnout21

    Burnout21 Is the daddy!

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    Hi guys,

    Not wanting to upset anyone, but could someone actually explain to me why the French Police and army are guarding the Jewish areas of Paris.

    That's somewhat confused the hell out of me. I would understand the protection of honest friendly Muslim areas.
     
  15. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    To a degree. More, do unto others... and all that. But people's belief systems don't deserve respect as a de facto standard. It doesn't matter if that is new age spirituality, politics, religion, your favourite programming style, the best way to make scrambled eggs. Any idea system should never be beyond reproach.
     
  16. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Wasn't it a kosher supermarket or a Jewish owned business, or something.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015
  17. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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  18. GuilleAcoustic

    GuilleAcoustic Ook ? Ook !

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    One of the hostage taking was in a kosher supermarket in Vincennes. All public area are still underprotection, not only jewish area.
     
  19. Xlog

    Xlog Minimodder

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    From what I understand, because of Israel-Palestine conflict, Jews are even at a greater risk of being targeted by radicals than other westerners.
     
  20. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    Charlie Hebdo's latest edition to depict Prophet Muhammad

    [​IMG]

    Surviving staff from the magazine worked on the new edition from Liberation's offices

    Continue reading @ bbc (12 January 2015 Last updated at 22:28 )

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30786211

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2015

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