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Equipment 2nd-hand SLR's - How many shutter actuations is too many?

Discussion in 'Photography, Art & Design' started by Krikkit, 4 Dec 2007.

  1. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Hey guys, this is a pipe-dream atm, but I might be able to scrimp out for a 350D after christmas (2nd hand), in time for some holiday goodness next year, but I want to know how many shutter actuations you'd trust to be able to get a good life out of the camera?

    Sounds a bit daft, but I don't want to pick one up on eBay et. al. with x number and find it falls to bits in a few months use.

    I realise that it's not an exact science, I'm just after a guide. :)
     
  2. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    MTBF

    I would start by looking at the MTBF for the shutter on a 350D. That will give you a reference number. If it's 50K and the one you are looking at is listed at 40K, then you may want to look around a bit more. If it's 10K then it may look good.

    Keep in mind that it is a mean, so it could fail tomorrow no matter what you do.

    Edit: One thing you could do is ask the seller if they use Flickr, and take a look at some of the EXIF info they have there. It lists the number of shutter actuations. At least mine does.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2007
  3. Fod

    Fod what is the cheesecake?

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    to be honest there's really no cut and dry answer to this. for one people will just lie about the number to begin with (it's not exactly like the milage of a car), so you're much better off looking at the overall condition of the camera. of course then there's way overboard with the people that say it's had 100,000 actuations - that i would steer clear of.
     
  4. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

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    If I recall correctly, it's something like this:
    Note/ these are guaranteed numbers, the real number is usually alot higher, there are many reports of people getting at least double of action. I assume it really depends on how well you treat your camera.

    ***D : 30.000
    **D : 60.000
    5D : 100.000
    1D : 200.000

    But these are all just guesses... as Fod sed.. there is no real answer. I think the state of the body is a better indicator for its life span.
     
  5. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

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    no patience + slow connection... double post
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2007
  6. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Ah right, cheers guys - I didn't know they quoted an MTBF, so that's a perfect way to tell... :blush:
     
  7. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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  8. coorz

    coorz Miffed

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    Regarding Canons; only 1D series can be verified for actual actuations (cancount app). All other models can have their counter reset to 0 at will.
     
  9. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Some good links there, cheers Jumeira. Interesting to hear coorz, sounds like I'd just have to take people on their word...
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I have a nearly brand new Canon EOS350D for sale --perhaps no more than 50 shots taken. PM me if interested.
     
  11. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Not atm I'm afraid Nexxo - it'll be post-Xmas if at all before summer, cheers anyway though. :D
     
  12. iwog

    iwog Linux cursed

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    Yeah i'd say that number is bull tbh, lets look at the evidence shall we.

    1 million clicks and its only just died, now what ever that camera is I want it and so should everyone else.

    Is it just me or do these seem ridiculously low. With such extremes the average clicks till death is dubious at best, complete bull in reality. The problem with internet surveys is the trolls. People will screw up your results for the fun of it, god knows I've done it in the past.
     
    Last edited: 4 Dec 2007
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    There are also statistical outliers. If a camera fails after a few dozen releases, chances are that there was something wrong with it in the first place, and was not representative for a correctly manufactured machine.
     
  14. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Indeed Nexxo - if we removed the 1,000,000 value (an invalid statistical analysis, but there we are), the figure shouldn't drop by too much tbh. (A rough estimate of ~4700 if my awful statistics are working). And that still includes those low-lying values which are blatant manufacturing defects and don't, imo, count towards long-term shutter life, not realistically anyway...
     
  15. iwog

    iwog Linux cursed

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    Removing outliers is not an invalid statistical analysis, its often done to "normalise" data. Although all analysis on a set this small is not truly representative and the mean could be drastically change over a much larger set.
     
  16. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    I think you take data on the internet a bit to seriously. A 350D's shutter is rated at 50k actuations. 85k is not unheard of. It was meant more as a ball park figure then a scientific study.

    TBH, 50k actuations is a lot of shooting for an non-pro. I remember reading that it averages out to almost 4yrs of shooting. So a 350D with, say, 35-40k still has about a 1 1/2 to 2 years in it. I shot about 35k last year and my shutter is rated to 100k. So at my rate, about 3 years. But these are all mean figures, you stand a good chance at going well beyond that.

    and if it does break, shutter assemblies are usually around 300 USD. And that gets you back to the rated shutter life, so basically an new camera. Not bad for the price. Around 100 USD per year of life.

    So figure the price of a hard used 350D and one year-plus 300 USD and another 3 years.
     
    Last edited: 5 Dec 2007
  17. Lovah

    Lovah Apple and Canon fanboy

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    Proper statistics would not use the top and bottom 5%...
     
  18. OleJ

    OleJ Me!

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    Statistics schmatistics... It's always a question of one too many.

    So there you are. That's how you'll know. If the counter says "12many" then it's a no-buy ;)
     
  19. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    That all depends on what confidence interval you're going for, actually. And it's not as simple as just 'throwing out the top and bottom 5%'. :) Statistics is a rather complicated math, though fun. :D
     
  20. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Dear god, a statistician! :waah:
     
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