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3D printer 'gun parts' found in Manchester raid

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Teelzebub, 25 Oct 2013.

  1. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Meh, if not them then someone else. The technology is there, making a weapon is inevitable. As will be the ensuing out rage and either the pathetic or draconian attempts at controlling the technology.
     
  2. Pete J

    Pete J Employed scum

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    What that video isn't showing is:

    1) The parts would have had to undergo post-DMLS machining processes.

    2) Almost all surfaces would have been polished.

    3) It would have been cheaper and quicker to machine from solid.

    Metal systems are far from new - they're just not in the public eye quite yet. Metal AM parts were being produced as far back as '98, or even earlier if you include lost wax processes and other workarounds.

    Metal AM is not easy either. It requires a good working knowledge of the process and time and effort to produce acceptable parts. Materials aren't exactly common either (metallic powders) and are expensive - in fact, if legislation was introduced, tracking material would probably be the easiest way to enforce it. Machines are also expensive (absolute minimum £200K, going up to £1M) and all are owned by decent sized organisations.

    At the end of the day, I can tell you that there is almost no interest in producing guns. The mayority of applications just want to take advantage of being able to create advanced geometries, such as advanced heat sinks and the like.
     
  3. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    I had suspected as much, frankly
     
  4. skunkmunkey

    skunkmunkey Minimodder

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    But you are missing the point... this is a way to create untraceable firearms in a country where guns are not legal to possess. As technology matures I'm sure there will be affordable (to criminals anyway) versions of this technology. So what if it takes longer to produce and costs more? When trying to get away with crime, cost doesn't tend to be an issue. I would imagine that there will be various criminal organizations with the resources and technological knowledge to make use of this for nefarious purposes... See the drugs barons employing chemists to create new *legal* drugs... times are changing fast and criminals are constantly evolving with them.
     
  5. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    I still suspect that there are plenty of untraceable firearms in the hands of criminals who want them already, and I'm sure they're a lot easier (and cheaper) to come by if you know the right people.
     
  6. skunkmunkey

    skunkmunkey Minimodder

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    but making your own removes the weak link from the supply chain. Informants, retards, busts etc can all incriminate people who buy such items.

    Another thing to take into account is the growing emphasis on Martial law & the removal of our liberty. You think in 20 years time its going to be easy to buy firearms? USA are already talking about gun bans, detection techniques are improving and our government is already taking steps to control our every movement. How long before some of the sci fi tech we have all seen is actually realised. Guns could be fitted with RFID type tech and only the owner could fire them... Completely feasible even with today's technology. When this point is reached then this technology would have serious implications and that may not be all that far away!
     
  7. techhead

    techhead Minimodder

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  8. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    As it would seem the required post processing as suggest by the previous poster indicates that it is no more a means of making an untraceable firearm than someone with a standard set of metal machining equipment.

    Guns have been around a lot longer than cnc machines and all the other toys that make their production easier and quicker.
     
  9. skunkmunkey

    skunkmunkey Minimodder

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    The thing is to use the machining equipment you would have to design and build the gun. This would require a decent knowledge of the process, something people train for years to learn. Admittedly, the finishing process would take a little knowledge but far less than actually machining a gun.

    3d printing provides people with little knowledge or skill a way to create weapons using off the shelf designs... Given the progress made in 3d printing, its not out of the realms of possibility that in a few years we could have a "metal" printer suitable for home or small business use. Combine that with a simple process of loading a design into the printer and it would seem there is indeed something to worry about....
     
  10. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Spot on, I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2013
  11. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    I should point out that I live in a country where it is legal for me to manufacture a firearm for my own use, so any statements beyond this point as to legality is moot.

    I have been looking into machining an AR15 lower (the part that is defined as a firearm by the BATFE) out of an 80% finished forging. I have been doing a lot of research into polymer lowers and parts.

    So, here are a few observations: 3D printed bullets aren't an issue. 3D printed guns aren't feasible at this point. 3D printed parts are feasible, but of limited use. As of right now, all 3D functioning printed guns that I know of are the lower receivers only and they only last a few 100s of rounds. All the other parts are metal, in particular the barrels and breaches.

    It's all a bunch of hysterical hype.

    DMLS is a promising technology, but far from the hands of the common man.

    Now 80% finished polymer AR15 lowers are a reality and can be finished by hand (crudely) in less then 4 hours with tools in any tools found in a modder's tool box. Using a legal lower parts kit, and a legally purchased upper, you have a fire arm that has no serial number and no need to be registered. Not a quality fire arm by any means, but capable of 5-7 MOA accuracy. An 80% forging from a quality Alu alloy can be finished in a few hours with a jig and a drill press to a fairly high level of finish, even higher with a cheap ($800) mill.

    My point? 3D printing isn't what you should be worried about. The CAD/CAM files for an M14, M1911 or an AR15 are readily available. The conversion of a cheap mini mill to CAM is well documented. Any machinist with a brain and a bridgeport can make a Mauser 98 or a Remington 700 action. Real guns made from metal. Yet, not flooding the market or responsible for mass killings (as far as I know, those were all made in factories and bought legally). So the whole plastic gun fear is just that, fear. It's not based on fact.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2013
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  12. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

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    Whats your opinion on skill requirements of finishing a weapon which has been printed using DMLS versus making one from scratch using regular machining tools. (Disregarding the actual availability and costs of DMLS)

    My guess would be if you can make a DMLS weapon work, you probably don't need a DMLS system to make a weapon.
     
  13. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    I think it's the same as having a rough sandcast, forging or a roughed out billet. From what I can gather, 3D printing and DMLS have a finished product that has the texture of a well cast object. A quality firearm has a ways to go from that state, if by CAD/CAM, mill or hand filing.

    I think if you have the ability and curiosity to use a DMLS machine, the effort of finishing it to a object that is classed as a firearm is tiny. Keep in mind, this is assuming that all the other components are available legally. A 100% scratch build takes some skill, looking at a modern pistol or rifle. Modern being 1860 and newer. All my research has been into finish milling of the one part which is defined as the "firearm". In the US, that would be the lower receiver of a semi auto fire arm or the action of a break/bolt/slide firearm.
     
    Last edited: 11 Nov 2013
  14. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    If one wishes one can make an untraceable weapon out of steel tubes and a nail. If you want to go on a school killing spree just go and steal weapons from "normal" people or go to a gun show and purchase cheap second hand weapons. Or just black market a crate of AK-47s.

    In countries where weapons are not as easy to come by the ammo is even more complicated to come by. Here (where it is incredibly forbidden to have a gun) if i wanted to get a gun to kill someone i would choose another way to kill him/her.
     

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