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Bits 64-bit: More than just the RAM

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 16 Oct 2007.

  1. culley

    culley What's a Dremel?

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    Yeh i think your right, OEM key's deffinetly don't work.

    Creative need to get there act together and support drivers for my 32bit version of Vista, It's a joke you would of thought that they would have sorted it by now.
     
  2. legoman666

    legoman666 Beat to fit, paint to match.

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    I have been using xp x64 for about 3 years now (or however long it's been since it came out, I switch maybe a few months after release). Before I made the switch from 32bit xp, I checked and made sure that there were 64bit drivers available for all of my hardware. Even 3 years ago, everything was supported that I had (audigy 2, ati card, etc). When I did a complete upgrade of my system about a year and a half ago, I once again had no problems finding the 64bit drivers for all of my new stuff.

    In those years, I've only run into a few random programs that wouldnt work simply because they were so old. Also, it was a while before there was a 64bit version of alcohol 120 or daemon tools. Even my little LCD screen from crystalfontz has had 64bit drivers for it since I switched.
     
  3. pendragon

    pendragon I pickle they

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    great article.. brings back memories of my Computer Architecture class in college :)
     
  4. airchie

    airchie What's a Dremel?

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    Excellent article, thx Brett. :)
     
  5. Spaceraver

    Spaceraver Ultralurker

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    Loved the article, but still confused.. I'll ponder on what you said for a while before deciding wether or not to go 64-bit when that time comes.
     
  6. completemadness

    completemadness What's a Dremel?

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    While your right, X86-64 offers more advantages then just more ram
    Currently, it really doesn't, because no-one is programming 64bit software (well almost no-one) the only improvements will be OS and drivers, which shouldn't take that many resources anyway

    So currently, the only real advantage of 64bit is more memory, and the main disadvantage is still driver support
    But it will improve, but in the mean time, you may as well stick with X86
     
  7. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    There's a lot of ignorance surrounding x86-64 and there are actually more applications than you would think... Everything from Antivirus, to firewalls, to WinRAR/7-zip, to VirtualDub/Xvid, to Firefox, to a fairly decent list of games all with 64-bit versions. I could go on...

    There's a good list here: http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t330290.html

    The glaring omission from that list is Adobe Photoshop CS3, which also has x86-64 extensions.

    To say that there is nobody coding for 64-bit is short sighted. Games are crashing like flies because they're running out of memory (they're hitting the 2GB application limit in 32-bit), so it's no surprise that developers are starting to include 64-bit executables.
     
  8. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    Ah, but *I* included it in *my* list ;)

    And as for your comment, completemadness, there's lots of reasons that the OS alone having ability to handle 64bit is important.
     
  9. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    Who needs 64 bit drivers released by manufacturers, when you can compile your own from source ;)
     
  10. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    yep, was reading the STALKER crash on running out of 2GB memory about 5mins ago. :rolleyes:

    if i were to use 64bit, can i still use my 32bit antivirus? (Nod32) i really like the idea of 64bit, and 50% performance increase in Crysis with a quad core, but after my incident with Vista 64bit flipping out, i am weary to install it again.

    off topic: are there any GOOD partition tools for Vista? Norton partition Magic don't work in Vista anymore. i want to dual boot 32bit and 64bit.
     
  11. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    Unless there are known compatibility issues, you should be able to run any 32-bit app under Vista 64-bit in hybrid mode.
     
  12. Woodstock

    Woodstock So Say We All

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    a much needed article, and really well done
     
  13. will.

    will. A motorbike of jealousy!

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    Poops...

    Ahh well. Buying vista ultimate OEM twice is still cheaper than buying it retail :p

    I only use my PC for games, making websites, watching videos, listening to music and browsing the net so I may make the change at some point. It will be quite a swift process too as I store everything I want to keep mirrored on an external hard drive anyway. So just wipe the internal drive and re-install as 64 bit.

    Has anyone used Flash CS3 on 64 bit per-chance? I know that has some serious bugs on vista 32 bit. I can't even begin to wonder how messed up it must be on 64 bit.
     
  14. alpha754293

    alpha754293 What's a Dremel?

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    It IS (mostly) just about the RAM though.

    You wrote it yourself in the article - without the OS, driver (hardware), and application (software) support, it won't be able to take advantage of the 64-bit anyways. (Recompile, re-write, or otherwise).

    That would mean that "did the next generation of processors really needed to support 64-bit computing on the desktop front?" Considering that people are still using XP (so much that OEM had to revert back to offering it), I would think that the answer is no. In fact, most of the hardware changes that were implemented in the Opteron (and subsequently Athlon 64) came from the defunct API EV6/EV7 platform. Most people I have met and talked with still think that 2 GB of RAM is plenty sufficient (with maybe the exception of Vista, but Vista's an odd-ball anyways).

    When I attended the AMD Tech Tour conference in Toronto in 2004, that was one of the questions that I posed to one of the engineers on site. And the net conclusion from that discussion was that what IS different about current 64-bit offerings is that for people who can actually utilize (need) the 64-bit memory addressing capabilities, it doesn't cost them $30k for a UNIX workstation. THAT is the most fundamental difference - which is driven by memory (addressing/usage) needs, supported by hardware and software. (i.e. if you don't need more than 3 GB, 32-bit is fine - which is still the case for the consumer desktop market).
     
  15. Bladestorm

    Bladestorm What's a Dremel?

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    He also mentioned the ability for a 64 bit OS to double up on some 32 bit code to get a speed increase without actually having to have 64 bit applications :thumb:

    My experience in the past with XP 32/64 was that the latter ran everything I threw at it about 15% faster and I'm talking 32 bit programs here :)

    64 bit vista is to me at least a clear choice, so long as you have a good reason to pick up vista in the first place.
     
  16. leexgx

    leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do )

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    the key you get is for 32 or 64 on vista (just that you only get the 32 bit disk or the 64bit disk) if you can get an 64bit disk (download it) the key will work, i know this due to one of my customers buying vista 32 OEM and Vista 64 OEM and we used the 32 key on 64 no problems, unlike XP the keys are interchangable between 32 and 64 disk
     
  17. Mister_X

    Mister_X Chaotic Neutral

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    Been using Vista 64 since launch more or less, Very stable, performs well and if anything getting better as time ( and drivers) go by. Like everyone else the biggest problems were with slow hardware manufacturers bringing out working drivers. I am still reluctant to install my X-Fi card again due the sheer amount of aggravation creative has caused me trying to get it to work properly.
     
  18. legoman666

    legoman666 Beat to fit, paint to match.

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    incorrect completemadness, there are 64bit versions of many popular programs out currently. A quick look at planetamd64.com reveals several hundred thousand downloads in the 64bit native apps section. Of course, some of them might be repeats (updated versions maybe), but the number is still impressive.
     
  19. Hells_Bliss

    Hells_Bliss What's a Dremel?

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    Watch it though, I tried norton, mcafee, AVG, and trend 32bit AV's (All free of course) before I gave up and bought Kaspersky 64

    As to the browser crashing out, I found it's better just to use the 32bit IE since everything is compatible with that and 64bit IE has so many issues.

    And creative is the devil, my sound will work fine usually but then sometimes it sounds like i'm talking through a fan when I'm on Ventrillo, or the sound will just become white noise...really loud white noise. A reboot is the only thing that'll fix it. but hey, i got 4gb and it's 64bit XP, so it loads up in about 15s :)
     
  20. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    no, no, no. it's not the browser crashing out, it's ANYTHING that needed internet (strangely enough, online activation worked fine) firefox, IE7, Steam all crashed upon launch
     
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