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A/V 7.1 Surround Sound Gaming with headphones?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by rainbowbridge, 18 Aug 2014.

  1. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    [​IMG]

    I would like to try war thunders 7.1 sound support.

    I am looking at the Tiamat 7.1 and wonder if any one has one?
    http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71/

    Has any one tested 7.1 for any thing on the PC? is it any good.
    It has 10 drivers in it, the Tiamat looks like an interesting piece of kit.

    Which audio card do we get to go with the Tiamat if that is the right headsphones to get?


    Any got any 7.1 with headphones comments, do you only go 7.1 if your doing it with proper speakers or are headphones fine?


    edit:------------


    - sound card:
    Asus ROG Xonar Phoebus Solo PCI-E Soundcard
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus-rog-xonar-phoebus-solo-pci-e-soundcard


    -headphones:
    Razer Tiamat 7.1 Elite Gaming Headset 10 Drivers Surround Sound
    http://www.scan.co.uk/products/raze...und-gaming-headset-analog-plus-free-watchdogs


    Any thing better that can be done than those two?
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2014
  2. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    Would like to test the difference between normal surround with normal but good headphones and proper 7.1 headphones.

     
  3. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    No such thing as proper 7.1 headphones. You just cannot get the sound separation within a headphone. I've had 5.1 headphones in the past, and honestly, waste of time. Stereo + in game effects are pretty much exactly the same.

    With that setup you've linked, you're suggesting dropping £240 on this. Waste of time.

    If you actually want to try out War Thunders 7.1 support. Amp and 7.1 speakers. Even that is mostly a waste of money in my opinion, 5.1 does a pretty good job unless you have a massive room or something.
     
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    To those that said and are probably going to say you can't get the sound separation within a headphone, that Stereo headsets with good software does a better job. I don't want to disagree or hijack the thread but i do question those claims.

    I used to use the old Zalman 5.1 analog headset, now using the inferior Turtle beach Z6, i can easily tell the direction of the sound, IMHO the brain does a very good job of detecting the direction no matter how slight the difference.

    I can't claim to be an expert as i haven't used a stereo headset with software doing the directional calculations instead of my brain, but I'm skeptical when everyone says they work just as well, if not better.

    Like i said i don't want to start an argument over the differences or mean to hijack the thread, but i would like to understand how software and two speakers can do a better job than 6+ speakers and the brain.
     
    Last edited: 18 Aug 2014
  5. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    well, I am going to be giving this a shot end of the month or so, I have a Asus Xonar Essence ST to lose which will help towards the 7.1 card, I think the one listed is the best available.

    Least one of us will get a try and give a decent review on it... it would be nice to do it so that I have the old tech here ie the Asus Xonar Essence ST rs-180, then flip over to the new card and 7.1 headphones and compare, then go back maybe then back again, then give an honest review on it if its worth it.

    Also, be great if other games support it like SC or elite, my thinking is it only needs to be 20% or 25% more awesome and Im going to be very interested in having this.

    Any thing that is even able to enhance the rift experience im all for it hence my interested in the revolution cockpit as well, good thing plenty of OT coming in during Sep with office works.
     
  6. rainbowbridge

    rainbowbridge Minimodder

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    Every time I have read about 7.1 from experts they have said that it is a con and to focus on stereo headphones but a true 7.1 headphone has to be different I agree, I want to test it, what about if its really awesome, will be a great game enhancer.
     
  7. notmeagain

    notmeagain Minimodder

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    I've had the Razer Tiamat 7.1 for about a year now.
    Be prepared for some quirks (no automatic bass response - you have to adjust LF Crossover to about 75-90hz), humming sound when the control pad is lit up... that aside:

    They're pretty good, positional audio is spot on, and the seperation between center and rear sides is very good, Rear side to Rear back seperation is a little muddy, but discernable.

    I also have the logitech z906 5.1 speakers, the tiamats are no competition for dedicated 5/7.1 but they are more than adequate.

    I also own a wide range of 2.0 headphones, from AKG-k701's to sennheiser in ears.

    Powered by a Xonar D2X PCI-e (Latest uni-xonar drivers)

    Gaming is always better with the Tiamats, hands down.
     
  8. seapanda

    seapanda moobs r us

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    There are 'proper' 7.1. headphones like the Tiamats - but personally, I find dedicated virtual surround headsets more effective. e.g. the Logitech G35 (not the newer and slightly cheaper ones, unfortunately), the Astros, etc. These use Dolby Headphone to simulate 7.1, and give a less disjointed soundfield than the Tiamats and equivalents.

    There are separate soundcards that offer Dolby Headphone like the Asus Essence series, but I find them well below the positioning and layering accuracy of the G35. Also a lot of people confuse 'soundstage' (the apparent width of the stereo image that a regular pair of headphones can provide) with '3D positioning' - the two are not the same, and rely on completely different things.

    One other option apart from a dedicated headset is to use Razer's Surround service, either the 'free' one (which is about as good as the Asus Dolby Headphone - i.e. not that good), or the customisable Pro service (which allows you to fine-tune the surround 3D model to your ears) with a pair of regular headphones. The standard service is definitely not as effective as the G35/Astros. The Pro - possibly, haven't tried it.
     
  9. docodine

    docodine killed a guy once

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    surround headphones are not good, but if you want to try one out feel free

    your DT770 will sound far better
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    But why are they not good ? Like rainbowbridge has said, everyone says 5.1/7.1 headsets are not good, or are a con, etc, etc. But as yet i have not found any explanations why.
    I have used 5.1 headsets and not found the positional audio to be lacking, i know audio can be very subjective but i do find i instantly know where a sound is coming from.

    I just find it hard to believe that two speakers and software can do a better job of conveying positional audio than 6-8 speakers and the human brain, i mean if two speakers and software is better why don't we all save our selves some money and just use two speakers for everything ?
     
  11. notmeagain

    notmeagain Minimodder

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    My take:

    The size of the drivers in the cans, and their positioning, distance from the ear etc.
    To cram 8! speakers into a head mounted device is quite a feat.
    You end up with a lot of cutbacks in sound quality to get the drivers small and slim enough to fit into the form factor.

    The sound stage is also diminished, because of the ammount of crud crammed into that small space.

    A dedicated 5.1/7.1 surround set up gives you very distinct sound sources, and with the proper room setup you end up with seamless transition in volume across all speakers.

    It's a bit hard to do that in 3x3in of space.

    However, I find that through my trials (Zalman 5.1, Turtle Beach EFC, Tiamats, G35s, Krakens, standard stereos) the Tiamats suit my purposes perfectly.

    That's the more important factor - they are gaming headphones that give me very well tuned positional audio, decent response and most of all - noise isolation.

    I can have them at full volume and barely pick up sound leak on my blue yeti mic.

    Trying 5/7.1's is a learning experience. As most people have experienced - you move to a new room and the acoustics are different, it takes a while for your brain to train itself to the new sound stage.

    I've truly come to appreciate that with the Tiamats, and have been using them for nearly a year now.

    YMMV, but don't listen wholeheartedly to the naysayers, try it - if you don't like it, buy a pair of AKG's and get simulated 7.1
     
  12. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    I totally agree that a good pair of Stereo headset will most of the time be better for sound quality versus a true surround set due to having to cram many smaller speakers in.

    But for me sound quality isn't a paramount importance when gaming, sure i want a headset that doesn't sound too tinny or bassy, but personally i swear by a true surround headset when gaming so i just don't understand the naysayers who say they are not good or say it's a con, yet fail to explain why.
     
  13. notmeagain

    notmeagain Minimodder

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    It's all subjective, potato, potato.

    I like metal/rock, others hate it and swear by dubstep.
    The same with headphones, some swear by Sennheiser, Shure, Beyer Dynamics.

    Some may have only experienced very bad 5.1 dedi headsets, and written them off as a whole.

    I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to audio - but only when listening to music, I couldn't give a toss if the treble was a little off on the AR15 firing 40ft off my 7 O'clock, but knowing exactly how far i have to turn the mouse to pump him full of hot lead is all that matters :)
     
  14. seapanda

    seapanda moobs r us

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    I find the Tiamats give me very good rear cues - not in terms of an actual rear cue hearing wise, but a learned response in that if I hear the sound coming from the rear drivers I know it's the back - but it kinds of ends there. Side and front cue as well as the distance-based layering of the sound is superior on a good Dolby Headphone implementation (as I said, not Asus) IMO.
     
  15. docodine

    docodine killed a guy once

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    speakers can't be compared to headphones in this case. two speakers sitting in front of you cannot very realistically give the impression of noise coming from behind you, but headphones sitting on top of your ears can do it just fine. it's easy to convince people that you'll have better positional audio with 8 drivers in a headset, but it's honestly BS

    just compare a good pair of headphones to a surround gaming headset yourself. there's a reason why professional gamers only use surround headsets when their sponsors want them to
     

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