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Cooling Air Cooled - AIR LOOP?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by forester joe, 5 May 2006.

  1. forester joe

    forester joe shhh. can you hear your PC?

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    I'm stuck in the middle of my mod, because I'm busy with work and school, and I don't have the space to leave it out. :wallbash:
    in addition I don't intend to buy a new PC until Supreme Commander :clap: comes out. (next year)

    BUT I had an interesting Idea. and I thought I'd share. maybe somebody has already done it. or maybe someone will build it.

    I was thinking of a certain cooling idea. with silence in mind.
    somehow the fan muffling evolved into this:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    the idea is basically a passive air-radiator en the "back" side. with an air loop going up - round - down - and back into the main chassis.

    of course this definitely won't work for an EXtreme OC rig. but no real quite machine is one.

    I'd love to hear comments, ideas, and links to similar projects.

    P.S. if some one wants to build it. I'd appreciate some credit.
     
  2. Kipman725

    Kipman725 When did I get a custom title!?!

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    Your optical drives shoulden't need a fan cooling them.
     
  3. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    A DVD burner can use one ;)
     
  4. Anobis

    Anobis What's a Dremel?

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    nice idee :D keeping the fans not to klose to the outer frame. the hdd i wood go 4 a 140mm fan silend and lots of air gowing pas the hdd. defnitlij wen you yous thikker scheets of metal ore alu. 4 the inner frame wear the fans are mountid on ;) and some soft o rings ore damping between the fans and frame. and 4 all the air in and outake il go 4 2 ore maby 3 layers of filter from a ..... ummm... damn :wallbash: dont know the english word 4 it :duh: se pic >>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Afzuigkap.jpg
    3 layers of that filter and it dempen a lot and dosent realy ubstrukt the airflow that mutch :rock:
     
  5. Captain Slug

    Captain Slug Infinite Patience

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    So, what exactly is revolutionary about having a case with good airflow?
     
  6. forester joe

    forester joe shhh. can you hear your PC?

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    definitly thick alu sheet. :D

    the idea is that it's a sealed air LOOP :idea:

    no air in, no air out.

    the obvious advantages are:
    1) less noise leeking out
    2) no dust.

    the radiator on the "back" is the main way out for heat.

    well that's the main idea.

    as for
     
  7. Anobis

    Anobis What's a Dremel?

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    aaaaaa ok so wat you meen with the radiator. somting like a airco sistem? but then sirculing in side the case. cool idee not realy cheap in cooling but hell. things wil stai real cool then and les air in case of fire :naughty:
     
  8. Nezuji

    Nezuji What's a Dremel?

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    I don't know anything about thermodynamics past what I learned in my highschool physics class, but I have a strong suspicion that this "air loop" simply isn't going to get rid of heat as fast as it builds up inside the case. Air is just such a poor conductor, which is why you usually need such a large quantity of it cycling around to have an appreciable effect (i.e. a houseful, or at least a roomful).

    Nezuji :)
     
  9. magicpixel

    magicpixel What's a Dremel?

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    It's not a bad idea as long as you have an EXTREMLY cold room to put it in. As Nezuji correctly states, you need ALOT of air to keep things cool. The surface or Back Panel you plan on using is just too small to disipate that much heat fast enough.
    IMHO you'll wind up with a very hot case very fast.
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    ^^^ What he said.

    The alternative, of course, would be to actively cool the air with some sort of phase exchange radiator. Given that the PC components would be warmer than the ambient, cooled air, there should be no condensation to worry about. All the condensation that would occur (as warmed-up air hits the cold phase exchanger) would be in the radiator array that is seperate from the rest of the PC innards. Just like frost/condensation would occur inside your airconditioning unit but not in the room it cools.

    Phase-change units are not exactly quiet, though. A grid of Peltier devices would be an alternative, but they need some serious juice to get going and gains would be highly inefficient and minimal because, as Nezuji said, air is such a poor conductor.
     
  11. Anobis

    Anobis What's a Dremel?

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    It got me thinking.
    If you yous the inner part off an airco. And you let the air circulate in the case. It can get real cold. Only one thing that can rowun every thing. Condensezation. But most airco sistems removes water out of the air. And so have a water collector. So in theary in a fu howers you wil have a very cool pc and dry air.
     
  12. Guest-18698

    Guest-18698 Guest

    ok but what about the heat from the exhaust of the PSU? ..
     
  13. Callum

    Callum What's a Dremel?

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    My first thoughts: "There is no way the air will transfer heat to the radiator quick enough, I'm thinking... Unless the radiator itself is actively cooled... Which, as people have said, is a possibility.

    Air is used as an insulator in closed systems, not a conductor. The only reason air is good for cooling is convection, which you will only be decreasing here."

    Then I realised that water is exactly the same (or worse?) as a conductor, and yet is used in closed water cooling systems. Having realised this, my thoughts are now:

    "This will only work, if the radiator is an actual radiator. I.e., the air has to pass through a great deal of it, being slowed down in the process, with a lot of surface area. The one you depicted in your diagram (which I realise could well only be because drawing it properly would be a nightmare), would not suffice."
     
  14. forester joe

    forester joe shhh. can you hear your PC?

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    thanks Callum. and everyone.

    didn't know this forum would be the best lace to post, thanks to the moderatore for moving it :)

    so three points make this concept feasable:

    1) low end machine -> low heat dissipation to begin with
    2) psu exhaust -> to minimize heat in the loop
    3) longer radiator loop -> for real results in cloase passive heat dissipation

    I think it's still an interesting idea, worth trying. pitty I don;t have the tiem to do more than draw it up.
     
    Last edited: 10 May 2006
  15. Anobis

    Anobis What's a Dremel?

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    wel in an airco the exaust is exsturnal so no prob thear... i think. and the psu... maby best to let it suck in air strait from the outside and olso strait back out. oooor maby ceep it internaly. the idee is very good but.... it needs some re thinking. like only the airco fans wil realy pump the air a round (most airco's have real stong blowing fans). only a fu fans wil then be needit to help to direct the air a litle bit. wear it is most needit. say your cpu ore chipset. and removing the alu/steel plates that holds those fanes. and replace them with nice thic hony come plates so the air aint blokt to mutch and stil gives some of exstra strenkt to the case :dremel:

    btw. if your yousing an airco like i have at home. youl get a prity some wat wormth exstra in the winter :naughty:
     
  16. stev

    stev What's a Dremel?

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    This type of technology of a sealed air loop is used with mission critical data acquisition systems.

    The entire computer case is totally sealed with air movement looping around to a main collector duct. This duct would have a HX to pull the heat out of the box and into a liquid cooling or heat-pipe loop going to the outside of the computer case.

    In military applications, liquid cooling is the most preferred method.

    In inventory control either liquid cooling or heat-pipe solutions are used. Ie. FedEX, UPS, and manufacturing of conveyer types of products.
     
  17. exavier412

    exavier412 What's a Dremel?

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    no offense, but please take the time to time complete words out. i do realize that english may be your second language, but that is just hard to read, and looks lazy, unless of course you dont know any better because of english not being your primary language, and if that is the reason, i apologize.
     
  18. LVMike

    LVMike What's a Dremel?

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    I hate to burts your bubble but it wont work, or keep you computer silent. I just did the Heat Transfer calculations and here is what i got

    I had to do a lot of extrapilation and guess work soo this will not be exact but i did my best.
    lets assume the interrior temp of your case is 80C

    If your radiator has 1m of area, and is 8cm deep, and you have aluminum in its 100%pure state, 2mm thick as the heat exchanger in a room that is 22C (room tmep) then your case will be transfering 0 J/s (J/s is watts)
    in other words at these temps your case would be in steady state, and equal heating would occure, your radiator would be 80C to the touch on the outside.

    for this to work well your room would have to be very cold, to effectivly transfer all the heat safely.

    as for the silence your computer would not be 100% silent or any quiter than it would be with water because the fans movement will create a vibration and you would here that, in addition you would still hear the movement of air in the case.
     
  19. modster

    modster What's a Dremel?

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    i think you will be better off with a home made heatpipe system.
     
  20. LVMike

    LVMike What's a Dremel?

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    callum

    water is 23 times more evective at heat transfer than air. while not as good as concrete (1.1) or alumini (240) its much better than air.

    Just FYI the BEST thermal conductor (that i have found/heard of ) is diamond which has a heat transfer coeficent of 2500
     
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